 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: masonmjs
Date: 2008-02-28 11:09
I have seen a number of posts on the BB which state that the mpc and reed (and ligature), being closest to the body are amongst the most important parts of the clarinet.
Could I get some opinions on the following:
1. Mouthpieces - Wood, Ebonite, Resonite, ABS, i.e. what is generally accepted to be the best material. I'm aware that this is typically personal choice and preference, but all things being equal (including matching the mpc to instrument bore etc), which material is likely to perform best.
2. Ligatures - I've seen metal, leather, and a fairly odd looking mesh one (called an Olegature, by Rico), not to mention a very weird looking one by Francois Louis. Again, personal preferences aside (I know that's difficult) is there any particular reason why one type should outperform another ?.
Hope I'm not opening a touchy subject (or can of worms) here, but as a relative newcomer (returning) to the instrument, I find myself somewhat confused by the choices.
Thanks
Mike
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-02-28 12:07
Unfortunately for you, Mike, the only axiom that serves to make sense of the chaos of options is this one:
"Try them and find what works best for you".
FOR ME, however,
Mouthpieces: popular opinion will say hard rubber by far. I have just bought two wood mouthpieces from Greg Smith that are much better than hard rubber, but I imagine most people do not want the spend the money or worry about cracking.
Ligatures: What allows the reed to vibrate most freely. This is even more personal preference than the hard rubber suggestion above. So my favorite lig's are Spriggs floating rail, the OLD (genuine) Harrison, and the Luyben.
Reeds: whatever...just learn to properly prepare and adjust them.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: masonmjs
Date: 2008-02-28 12:48
Hi James,
Thanks for the advice, much as I suspected.
Unfortunately, I find myself out in SE asia for a while and there just is not the availability to try the choices out first-hand, I have to try to make sense of them at a distance and then take the plunge on a purchase.
I have recently acquired two clarinets (yes I am nuts) for much the same reason as the above, although I consider that I did pretty well on the price ($178 for a Selmer Signet Soloist, and $140 for a B&H Imperial Ebonite). I have not yet played them as they are waiting for me in the UK.
The B&H comes with a La Fleur mpc (ebonite I believe) and ligature, and the Selmer with an unknown mpc (till I see it).
Since I am still a long way removed from any decent music shops, I am trawling Ebay most nights on the hunt for more 'bargains' and have a hankering to try to improve my recent purchases re the mpc and lig.
I appreciate that this is somewhat premature, never even having played the originals yet but thought I might be able to reason out a good purchase if I see one. I just need some advice on where to start.
Many thanks again for the reply, and any further advice is appreciated.
Mike
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-02-28 12:50
Hard rubber has been the mouthpiece material of choice for most of the better brands, and so it's de facto the "best" material even though I don't think there's any reason why a plastic mouthpiece shouldn't be just as good.
I've acquired a big variety of ligatures by purchasing used clarinets, but I keep going back to the ordinary two-screw ligatures. (I'm an amateur, fwiw.) When I have an oddball vintage mouthpiece that modern commercial ligatures don't fit, I like a homemade Velcro lig. Completely adjustable and extra-cheap, too.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-02-28 12:53
Mike,
As a starter mouthpiece the Fobe's Debut is excellent. It is made of plastic (that's a negative) but hand finished and extremely consistent (both positives).
If I had to perform with one, I could do in a pinch. New they go for around $30...but they can be bought on eBay for far less. I would start there and work up when you have more options (presuming the mouthpieces coming to you don't fit your bill).
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2008-02-28 14:30
I've tried a lot of ligatures and most of them didn't improve anything that I didn't get with my current ligature which used to be the Vandoren leather ligature. I did try Bay inverted rohdium,Rovner Evo5 and Eddie Daniels,Ligaphone,Olegature,Vandoren Master,Optimum and Klassik,Francois Louis,Luyben,Rico H series. The Rovner is one of the worst ones because all the overtones in the sound are killed. Bay is to bright in the upper register and not even,Ligaphone metal one with two screws didn't fit and the Universal one is very clumsy design. Olegature makes the sound very fluffy. Francois Louis is great but not better than what I have. Same goes for the Rico H series. Vandoren master is not flexible at all and bright sounding and the Optimum is just too bright sounding for my taste and I've also had one of each bent. The Luyben is fine but not durable. And the Vandoren Klassik is a bit difficult to fit and also a bit fluffy. I used to think that the Vandoren leather ligature was so dark sounding and compact but after trying what I currently use I've found that even with the metal insert it kills the overtones and overal resonance of my mouthpiece.
And now what I use and will continue to use for many years to go(I'm not going to try ligature in near future) are BG Traditional and Standard. They both do what they are suppossed to do,they don't kill the overtones but still they are dark sounding. They are easy to put on and give me so much resonance and then they are not too expensive at least the Standard one. The Standard one gives me plenty of projection but if I just want a little bit extra punch then the Traditional is perfect and not much brighter.
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Author: AS
Date: 2008-02-28 17:23
While browsing Internet I saw a funny ligature called Bois - a ring of about 5mm, no any screws. Anybody has an expierence to share about this?
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2008-02-28 19:18
AS wrote:
> While browsing Internet I saw a funny ligature called Bois - a
> ring of about 5mm, no any screws. Anybody has an expierence to
> share about this?
I have one. It's fine as far as the sound it lets you produce, but I thought it was far too easy for the reed to slide out from the proper positioning on the mouthpiece. This was especially annoying as I use Legere reeds and they are very sensitive to proper positioning/placement. I currently am using a Rovener Eddie Daniels II and just got a Vandoren Klassik string ligature to try out.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-02-28 20:58
Since you have not played either instrument you have no way of knowing if any mp you purchase will "work" with either one. I'm inclined to agree with LL that hard rubber is "the best" especially in your situation. Of primary importance is that whatever mp you purchase will "fit" the barrel.
Bob Draznik
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Author: beejay
Date: 2008-02-28 23:14
I don't find a great deal of difference between one ligature and another, frankly. My only requirement is the mechanical one of being able to get the mouthpiece on and offf quickly in switching from Bflat to A. I recently changed to a Vandoren 5RV lyre mouthpiece, which I think is the best I have ever owned. I find that it works best with a plain vanilla Rovner ligature.
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2008-02-29 05:32
dude, you guys ought to try the bg super revelation gold plated ligature. it adds a slight covered sound, but opens the sound of the clarinet the best.
i've tried most of the ligatures
I did try Bay inverted rohdium, and Eddie Daniels,Ligaphone,Olegature,Vandoren Optimum ,Francois Louis,Luyben,Rico H series, mitchell lurie spring board, BG ligatures: standard, revelation, super revelation; saddlemeier? , bois, bonade inverted, and cut in the middle version, pyne, brancher leggerio,
I agree with the statements above:
"The Rovner is one of the worst ones because all the overtones in the sound are killed. Bay is to bright in the upper register and not even,Ligaphone metal one with two screws didn't fit and the Universal one is very clumsy design. Olegature makes the sound very fluffy (metal sounding, slighly edgy). Francois Louis is great but not better than what I have (it's a finicky ligature, but once setup correctly, plays quite well. the reason why it's not regularly used is the consistency of the bg super rev ligature's quick and painless setup) Same goes for the Rico H series (the sound wasn't anything extraordinary, or mentionable. just sounded a tad dampened, but still "normal" so to speak. Optimum is just too bright sounding for my taste (kinda played with resistance in my opinion). The Luyben is fine but not durable (there is relatively little tonal control with this ligature. the reed vibrates excessively too much, and retracts from the listening experience) I used to think that the Vandoren leather ligature was so dark sounding and compact but after trying what I currently use I've found that even with the metal insert it kills the overtones and overal resonance of my mouthpiece. (sounds a somewhat like the bg super revelation, not sure about the killing overtones)
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-02-29 08:02
I've tried many ligatures and I totally disagree with what Iceland clarinet and C2thew wrote about pretty much all the ligatures. This doesn't mean they are wrong or I'm wrong, just that different people will not have the same experience. It is not facts.
For example I can try the BG ligature C2thew recommended, and hope it would give the improvement he was talking about. In fact, I have tried it, and had no improvment over what I use. I chose not to use it because it was not as comfortable as what I was using.
I don't know what "fluffy metal sounding" means but I use the Oleg ligature and it's very good and definitely doesn't have what I would consider a "fluffy metal sound". I also really like the Vandoren Masters ligature which sounds the same to me. I use these because they are metal, have the screws on top and have the best sound I found.
I changed from the Vandoren Optimum, which although many people use and sound great (including several players that I really like) just made the response very resistant. I suspect there was something wrong with mine.
The leather/fabric ligatures I've tried stretch so I avoid them. Some people said they don't notice them stretch, so maybe I tightened them harder (and if I have, it made no difference in any way to the sound since I've also tried without tightening so much). Based on trying many different materials of ligatures, I found the material doesn't have a specific effect.
I've used plastic, hard rubber, wood and crystal mouthpieces over the years, at least several years with each, and I've tried a lot of others too from these materials. I was sure each material has a unique sound. Now, after trying many mouthpieces from these materials, I am pretty sure it doesn't.
I settled on hard rubber mouthpieces but mostly because the best ones I found were hard rubber, and probably not because they were made of that material. OTOH I probably only looked for hard rubber mouthpieces because I prefer them and I had some reasons for this.
IME hard rubber mouthpieces are a little more consistent than wood mouthpieces, and definitely more than crystal (I'm talking about mouthpieces as they come from the factory or the maker, without any later additional work, although I don't know how consistent a refacer can be anyway). Since I use currently made mouthpieces hopefully they are easier to replace.
My wood mouthpiece cracked which isn't a problem with hard rubber. Crystal is a little heavier and can break more easily, plus I don't like the feel of that material (and same for metal). Hard rubber, as far as I could understand, is also easier to machine accurately and is more stable (than wood).
Hope this helps.
Post Edited (2008-03-01 06:37)
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Author: zoot1a
Date: 2008-02-29 09:00
Hi,
Glad to see someone else using the RV Lyre I have been playing one for some years and it does the job for me. Also to my mind , all that talk about ligatures is really so much sales hype.I just happen to have a Vandoren with 2 screws on top , its light weight, easy enough to get on and off>>who needs more.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-02-29 14:06
"I just happen to have a Vandoren with 2 screws on top , its light weight, easy enough to get on and off>>who needs more."
Well....many people!
I'm always confused by the idea that the ligature OR mouthpiece have sound. I'm the one who creates the sound, and the core of my sound (the thing that makes it me) is the same on every piece of gear.
Certain mouthpieces do add/subtract to the sound in subtle fashion. More importantly they facillitate or impede performing/expression.
Ligatures can also add/subtract to the sound subtley...but in the capacity that they facillitate or impede the reed's proper vibration.
James
(Whose BG super revelation sits in a drawer...currently next to the Harrison. Maybe I'll give it a play later today...)
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: masonmjs
Date: 2008-02-29 14:14
Thanks to all of you who gave me the benefit of their (many years) of experience, that was just what I needed, there really is no substitute or short-cut for time well spent and many options tried and tested (but hopefully we just disproved that here).
I think I understand better now, realistically, all choices are subjective, of course one would expect the well proven mouthpieces to win out in the end, but choosing between those few (dozen) at the top end is mainly a personal preference.
I will pick through this thread again later and try to see what gets the majority vote and will then use that as my starting point. Thanks again to all who replied, it really is great to have all this experience and knowledge at ones fingertips - how did we ever do without the Internet ........ Great forum, and great members.
Mike
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2008-02-29 15:21
Hard rubber is a fairly stable, hardwearing material that's easy to work and gives more life to the sound than most of the modern plastic alternatives which in my experience sound... well... plasticky.
My own experience with ligatures is that a rigid metal one sounds slightly brighter and makes the reeds feel harder; a rubbery Rovner takes all the harsh edges off, which I quite like.
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2008-03-01 02:15
iceland and myself were addressing ligatures specifically.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: skjaeve
Date: 2008-03-01 09:15
I find that the Super Revelation has some difficulty holding a Legere reed in place, since that reed has a lot less friction against the mouthpiece than a wooden reed.
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2008-03-01 12:55
I say what John McCaw said in a masterclass in Iceland 2002 "A bad ligature can ruin a good mouthpiece and great ligature can turn a good mouthpiece into a great one".
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2008-03-02 23:12
Mike,
I noticed that no one mentioned the Vandoren Klassik string ligature. I've been using the Klassik for close to two years and have came to prefer it to any metal or fabric (Rovner-style) ligature that I've used over the years. It's been my experience that the string ligature increases projection and vibrancy to one's sound. I do not know exactly WHY string works like it does. Never the less, I'm very impressed with the Klassik ligature.
Roger
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2008-03-03 01:39
Well Roger I only know that string doesn't work for me like it's working for you. It projects really well and almost better than fabric ligatures but metal ligatures project more for me. Then I really have to dissacree that it increases vibrancy. It vibrates more than my Vandoren leather ligature but not near as much as my BG Traditional and Standard ligatures. Then I have hard time when I use reeds on the harder side since the sound will be a bit fluffy and it becoms hard to focus the throat tones.
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Author: Mark P
Date: 2008-03-03 15:21
I've played the same Luyben since 1980 using a trick from my college clarinet teacher, Rubin Haugen, throw the screws away and install rubber O rings across the posts for the screws, this makes for a very quick fitting ligature. I thought the idea was goofy when I first heard but on trying it, found it quite effective. I currently play a Greg Smith #1 Chedeville mpc. But have used it on B45, Hite, Blayman mpcs as well.
Mark
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