 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Aures22
Date: 2007-01-19 03:57
Hi, all. I just tried a new Signature Bb and I was pleasantly surprised by the way they played. I felt and heard numerous improvements when compared to the older ones that I've tried. It felt like the uncomfortable stuffiness and strong resistance was reduced and the resistance felt just about right for playing. I was able to achieve a wide dynamic range with a same focus, shape, and intonation throughout. Tuning was very accurate and it actually was the best I've heard from any Bb clarinet. Issues in the 3rd altissimo registers I had like difficulty in speaking, maintaining control, and sound quality were gone and apparantly solved. It had a nice centered, dark, lovely sound throughout that was unique.
I returned this instrument twice during trial periods because of the many problems I felt, but now I have to reconsider this instrument. It really is one of the best clarinets I've played ( I have nearly 20 yr exp ). I compared it to the other Selmers like the St. Louis, Arthea, and it was a clear favorite in many ways. And, it is in my view a better and more developed clarinet than the Buffet R-13. Also, compared to the Leblanc Backun Symphonie I tried, the Sig. was still objectively and subjectively better. The Symphonie had a nice resonant sound, but there were some tuning problems. The response was not exactly to my liking, but I may have to get used to the instrument.
The serial number of the Signature I tried was PO8XXX and is one of the latest one from Paris I believe. I don’t think I’ve seen the same model instrument improve this much before. People please try them cause I think you will like it a lot.
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P.S. I feel that the Bb Signature has more center in terms of pitch, color, shape of the tone, but I don't mean that it's not flexible. When I tried the horn, it was flexible, but in a different way than say a Buffet R-13. The R-13 I tried was too flexible and made it difficult to play in a solid fashion. Too much phrasing nuance allows more room to make mistakes.
Post Edited (2007-01-25 17:08)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-19 07:22
I would definitely be interested in the Signatures if they made them to N.6 (19/7) or N.8 (20/7) specifications!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-01-19 14:31
Very interesting. Stuffiness and high resistance were exactly what I objected to when I tried the Signature shortly after it came out. This seems to be characteristic of Tom Ridenour's designs, since I've felt the same thing when I've tried the Leblanc Opus and Concerto. Many people love this, but it's not for me.
The design makes it easy to get one good tone, but difficult to vary the color. That's why I stick with R-13s, for all their faults.
Can anyone chime in on whether Tom's current instruments play this way?
Ken Shaw
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-01-19 14:36
> I would definitely be interested in the Signatures if they made them
> to N.6 (19/7) or N.8 (20/7) specifications!
Chris, I understand the 19/7 part, but what do these numbers (N.something) mean?
--
Ben
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Author: sherman
Date: 2007-01-19 15:31
Ken:
I have a new Ridenour and for me, it plays with a great bit of ease and equality of register, to say nothing of being the only one of many that I've tried that is intune about as much as it can be. I have not tried the Signature, too old I guess for a new horn, but I do have a fairly new 10S which is as close to perfect as Selmer has come in my view. It has a much better intonation and playing than does the 10G copy of the Buffet R13, about which I too would like to hear commentary.
Tic-tac-tux:
And , I would investigate the availability of the full Boehm or minus the Eb as well. I would think that they are available by special order.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-19 15:52
Selmer specified their clarinet keywork with the N.X model numbers.
So:
N.1 is 17/6,
N.1B is 18/6 (w/LH Eb),
N.2 is 17/7 (forked Eb),
N.6 is 19/7 (LH Eb, forked Eb and artic. G#) and
N.8 is 20/7 (full Boehm - as above + low Eb).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: DaveF
Date: 2007-01-19 17:20
My pair of Selmer Signatures are relatively new, from 2005, and although there is increased resistance as advertised, I feel it plays beautifully even throughout, and with a great set up, I can achieve a broad pallete of dynamics and color. Intonation however for me has been a little problematic. The 12ths certainly are very good, but I understand that other Signature players also note that the altissimo is flat, particularly E and Eb. When possible I add the sliver key to the altissimo E, but am forced to try to lip up the Eb. No improvement on the flat low F. Also, like most factory instruments, setup and adjustment was necessary. I played a lot of instruments at WWBW before picking this set, so I'm very happy with them, although if the Leblanc-Backun line was available, then.....maybe......
Dave
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2007-01-19 17:28
Are the new Signatures different?
Did they change something?
Is there an intentional re-design of the bore?
If so, after what Serial no.?
I have never tried these horns.
I DO have a nice set of Recitals, but recently switched back to Buffet.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Dan Oberlin ★2017
Date: 2007-01-19 18:14
Ken,
I'll second what Sherman said about the Ridenour: mine is certainly
not stuffy or overly resistant. It is more fun to play and easier to execute
on than any other clarinet I've used. An example: among the pieces on our band's next concert is one by Ron Nelson that we played a couple of years ago. It has a high and soft passage that I remember worrying about then.
Practicing it a few minutes ago, I was wondering what the fuss was about
last time.
D.O.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-01-19 19:00
DaveF -
According to a Selmer representative, you can order the Recital F/C correction mechanism on any model. It's mechanically complex, but you don't have to remember anything to use it (as you do on the Buffet Tosca).
I don't think Selmer will retrofit it to an existing clarinet, but I've heard that some people (Backun?) will add it.
Dan -
How does the resistance of your Ridenour compare to an R-13?
Ken Shaw
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Author: Dan Oberlin ★2017
Date: 2007-01-19 19:31
Ken,
The Ridenour's resistance is somewhere in the middle of the range
of variation I've encountered with R13's.
D.O.
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2007-01-20 02:00
The Signature uses the most choke in the bore design. (double choke in the barrel and the choke in the bell) This bore design is more resistant if you compare it to the free blowing bore design of the R-13.
To have a focus (center) in the tone a player needs some resistance. Most of American professional players create this resistance by using hard reeds on the free blowing (close tip) mouthpiece but the others prefer a resistant (open tip) mouthpiece with a softer reed. This approach works well with a free blowing design like R13 and will not work well on the Signature. Because the resistance is already built in the bore a players has to use a free bowing mouthpiece and/or a reed. So, if you use harder reed on the close tip mouthpiece lighten up on the reed. By balancing the resistances of bore, mouthpiece, reed and ligature you will find the Signature is very easy to play.
The first N-series Signature I've bought was a dog. I couldn't bring it to the 440HZ pitch even with the shorter barrel. The second is nice but still I prefer my King "Marigaux 350" and my old R13 over the Signature.
Vytas Krass
Clarinet Repair
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
Post Edited (2007-01-20 02:02)
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Author: larryb
Date: 2007-01-20 12:50
I want to second Vytas' comments about the Signature reed/mouthpiece/instrument relationship.
I play a Signature Bb, and when I've got the right strength reed (V12 3.5 on the light side) on my C* Greg Smith mouthpiece, I find that it plays with perfect feeling (for me) of resistance, flexibility, control, intonation and tone. Altimssimo pops out; bottom notes are nice and resonant.
Then I can just play music.
I would venture that the same notion about all the parts of the instrument being in alignment holds true for all brands/makes. It's been discussed here many times: take a "systems approach" to clarinet playing.
I have an older Signature (purchased in 1999), and the problem with leaky tone hole inserts (imperfect fit) can compound the stuffiness quality. Important to make sure that they are properly fitted/sealed (which mine is now). My one complaint, but a fixable one.
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Author: thomas.b
Date: 2007-01-20 15:11
I tried several older Signatures: Since I am used to German clarinets I have always problems with the really low resistance of Boehm clarinets. I try to overcome my problems ( for ex. pp in g''-c'': tone looses body and contour, ff: tone gets harsh, metallic....) with a Viotto G3 and Vandoren WM.
The Signature solved these problems for me... it offers a little bit more resistance than the "normal" Boehms and therefore I really rated this instrumetn very high. But there were shortcomimgs: all sigs I tried were rather flat in the low f and e ( similar problems arise in with the high resistance German instruments which avoid this problem with special keys).
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2007-01-20 15:55
I also play-tested 3 Selmer Signatures the first year they were out. I found them a bit on the stuffy side and really difficult to get adequate volume. My Opus did not have that problem, even though Ken mentioned having this problem with the Opus and Concerto. I also found the tone of the Signature a bit too bright for my taste.
However, I will say it is a beautiful instrument and I liked the key design and feel very much.
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Author: Aures22
Date: 2007-01-21 21:35
Alseg,
Yes, the new Signature do indeed play somewhat differently in a positive fashion to my feeling. It actually was what I hoping Selmer Paris would improve upon. But, I don't know exactly what changes were made to the bore or anywhere on the clarinet. Only they know that for sure. As to the serial number, the last one I tried before this was PO4xxx, and before that the NOxxxx-don't remember the the exact serial numbers.These played very similar, unlike the new one I just tried.
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