 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: CircaRevival
Date: 2006-04-02 23:46
I've been playing tenor sax for about four years and picked up Bb clarinet this summer. In my school's wind ensemble there are barely any low brass players, and my director wants me to double bass clarinet to back up that section. I just took the school's in to a tech to get looked over, and have a few questions about the school's bass and playing it in general.
My school's clarinet is a Vito, and it appears to be somewhat old. It's has a one piece body, and has no model number to be found on it.
Does anyone know about the quality of these one piece body Vito's? When they were made?
What is more advantageous, playing with the floor peg or with a neckstrap?
When I took it home, I noodled with it for a few minutes, and could barely get the low notes out without them getting shaky and couldn't play above middle C (on staff).
It came with a mouthpiece labeled "J+D Hite", looks old also, will this work? Does anyone know about these pieces? I'd hate to have to buy one for $120+.
Bass clarinet seems like an awesome horn, and I can't wait to get it back and start honking away.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: pmgoff78
Date: 2006-04-03 00:37
Hi,
First, welcome! The Vito is a decent horn. Of the plastic horns I'd only choose a Bundy/Selmer over it. It should be fine.
I would play with a neckstrap and peg. My reasoning is that you gain alot more control over the instrument IMHO. In using both you can lean over the instrument slightly and set peg at an angle to the floor (maybe 30 or 40 degrees).
Don't forget that on Bb Clarinet the Middle C and B speak pretty well. On Bass they are the hardest notes to play. No joke! Allow the point in your chin (which is pretty helpful on Bb) to relax and don't be afraid to use lip pressure on the reed. Many folks do this on Sax and sometimes it helps. Also, just blow really hard.
With regards to the low register air should do the trick. Make sure (I don't want to sound rude) that you are covering the little hole on the first finger left hand. That's the half hole and automatically half-holes for you in the altissimo. If these pointers don't help I'd get the horn looked at just to be sure. The low register posts and rods, etc. bend and get out of whack quite easily on those Vitos.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: CircaRevival
Date: 2006-04-03 00:43
Thanks a lot for the reply. Funny thing is, I could get middle B and C to speak on the bass. I remember it feeling very strange how I was blowing into it, it felt almost like I was sucking air in (whatever that means?). Right now it's getting looked over, so I'm waiting to try more.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: pewd
Date: 2006-04-03 01:26
middle c is below the staff - should speak easily
if 3rd space c is difficult, try a harder reed, and have horn checked for leaks.
pad leaks in the middle of the horn can make anything over the break almost impossble on a bass.
hite mouthpieces are fine. any other markings on it?
vito's aren't bad for student level basses. i have one, it plays fine.
what strength and brand reed are you using?
hope you didn't find an old grungy one in the case....
look inside the mouthpiece - clean? or full of 'stuff'.?
what kind of ligature?
i never use a strap, but i'm rather tall. how big are you?
i'll be the tech finds and fixes a lot of leaks - and it will work much better when it returns.
clarinet embouchure is different than a sax - you might get a few lessons once the horn comes back.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: pmgoff78
Date: 2006-04-03 01:35
Pardon, I meant 3rd Space C and 3rd Space B. Those are crazy notes.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: EEBaum
Date: 2006-04-03 06:01
In my experience, bass takes longer to warm up to. I can jump in on a Bb or A totally cold, but I need about 10 minutes on a bass to get it reasonably playable. Granted, I'm still relatively new to the instrument. Also, on a nicer bass I need only a fraction of that time.
The general sentiment about bass clarinet I get is that people think they suck at it until they try a nice one (i.e. not the school's).
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: CircaRevival
Date: 2006-04-03 11:25
Thanks a lot for the replies! I couldn't find any other markings on the mouthpiece, and the ligature appears to be the one that came with it. When I played it (for about ten minutes) I used my #2 tenor reed. (yes, very soft) I ordered some #2.5 Vandoren traditional bass reeds.
Regarding the strap- I'm about 5'5'', and it felt pretty comfortable, more like a sax. I will definitely be taking lessons. Thanks!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: pmgoff78
Date: 2006-04-03 12:20
I'm glad the strap works for you, but it would be unwise to play the horn without a floor peg. It takes the weight off you completely and gives you a unique opportunity to have no pressure on your right thumb. You didn't mention if you are or are not using one, but I can't help but implore you to please use a peg if you're sitting and playing. If you're standing then no big deal!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-04-03 14:03
As a long time bass clarinet player (running back to the mid-1950's), I've done it all three ways. And, I vote firmly on the "no neck strap, use a peg" ticket whenever this comes up.
I'm strong enough to play the bass off of my right thumb for extended periods without pain, but I prefer the positioning ease of the peg. The neck strap method ends up "chaining" you (pun very intended) to the instrument in a rigid relationship that can get in the way when it's time to change horns, or turn pages or whatever. Also, with the "student" horn necks, it can be quite uncomfortable to contort yourself into a playing position. (This is not as much of an issue with the better angles on the "pro" and aftermarket necks, however.)
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-04-03 14:57
I feel somewhat the opposite of Terry re: bass clarinet playing using a strap and/or peg. I usually use a strap alone, as for me it is the peg which makes me feel 'rooted in one spot' whereas with a strap I can move around, nor do I have to worry about the peg slipping across the floor. Also, for the K&M bass clarinet/bassoon stand I use, the peg makes it difficult to install and balance the instrument in the stand.
That said, if I'm doubling I agree with Terry that the peg is better, and for long rehearsals the peg certainly relieves stress on the thumb and neck. I re-angle all my bass and contra-clarinet necks, so the old-fashioned uncomfortable horizontal mouthpiece angle is not an issue for me.
My advice would be to try both methods for a while and see what works best for you.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: pmgoff78
Date: 2006-04-03 15:29
For a kid I usually suggest using both. They are not really in the position to control the instrument with their right thumb like most of us are IMHO. My best solution for this has been to have students practice standing up (neck strap only of course) and then they will grow quite comfortable with the instrument. Marching band helps with this markedly. After they get used to it they could probably do whatever they like, but most kids just aren't advanced enough to be doing something fancy.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2006-04-03 16:38
Don't even own a strap. The peg allos more freedom that one thinks.
Initially I felt also quite fixated with the bass (compared to the Bb), but at the end, the thing also moves if you want it to :-)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-04-03 20:32
I've got to have a strap, as I always practice standing up (unless I have 'extended range' bass clarinet parts to practice, in which case I pretty much have to sit down).
Side note on straps -- the double-hook style is worthless --- if you're going to use a strap, use a single-hook strap, and the strap hook needs to be in the proper location for good balance --- this is typically at the bottom of the upper joint, NOT on the bottom joint just above the thumbhook where the strap hook is normally found!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-04-03 20:54
David, I too normally play an extended range horn, and as a result the regular horn feels like a featherweight if I have cause to use one (I keep one as my "lifeboat").
The stand is not a major issue for me, as I use a type of stand purchased back in the late 1960's from a firm in Indiana by the name of Anderson. It's a cast aluminum and spring steel device that holds the horn by the bell, and it is ideal for use with the extended range with a floor peg. With a normal bass, it would need to have an extension with a standard peg thread at the top, and even then it would not be stable with its normal cast aluminum base legs.
I mount the Anderson stand "top" on an H-bar base made of 2"x 4" oak stock, varnished up to look nice as well as to offer a rock solid base for my horns. The junctions of the H cross bar with the verticals are where my baritone stand and bassoon stands are mounted. It's much more stable than the original base, and while heavy it doesn't present any more of a load when hauling it all on my Rock n Roller cart.
(Incidentally, the Anderson stand was designed both to fold up very small, and to (with some substitution of parts) to accommodate alto or bass clarinets, and alto and tenor saxophones, as well as to hold pegs for the other soprano instruments. A very versatile piece of equipment, and I mourn the demise of the company at least once a year. Lucky for me, I stocked up with about four complete stands before the company disappeared....)
My bass pegs have a "sharp edged" rubber foot on the bottom that's about 3/4" in diameter. They grab quite well, and the edge digs in when the horn is tilted to prevent slippage. I've tried the "ball foot" version and still prefer the ones that I have.
That two hook chain device put me off of neckstraps completely for any of the harmony clarinets. Then again, I've never had to march with one.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: CircaRevival
Date: 2006-04-03 20:55
Wow. Thanks for the info. Looks like I'm going to have to experiment with different things. I'll try my sax strap with the peg first, and then see what is most confortable. I like neck straps a lot.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: pmgoff78
Date: 2006-04-03 21:30
When marching one loves the neck strap ;o) I totally agree with you David. The Double Hook (that one finds on Selmers) is worthless. I like the hook in the bottom half of the upper joint. Pretty good balance there!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: CircaRevival
Date: 2006-04-03 22:22
The bass I have has the neck strap ring on the bottom half of the upper joint. I'll be using an Oleg ergonomic sax strap.
http://www.wwbw.com/Oleg-Ergonomic-Sax-Strap-or-Harness-i84845.music
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
