 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Markael
Date: 2005-10-23 22:16
Within the last month or two there was a thread on this subject.
Around the same time frame I was referred to a quality repair person who specializes in the high end instruments. Always before I had taken my axes to places that do high volume work repairing band instruments.
First he overhauled my Selmer 10. Not only did it make a difference in the response, but the sound was much cleaner and purer!
So, with trepidation I let him work on my bass, which is a Leblanc Esprit I purchased on eBay this year. The trepidation was about shelling out the bucks; I had no doubts about the quality of his work.
He put on cork pads, [incorrect. see below in the thread] and since I didn't rush him and stay on his case, he took his time and made it a labor of love.
The difference is just as striking as it was on the soprano Bb, and in a way, more so, because I can play with confidence.
So I've come to the conclusion that a large percentage of the squeaks and squawks coming from bass clarinets is due to faulty equipment.
Post Edited (2005-10-25 16:19)
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Author: contragirl
Date: 2005-10-25 04:29
This is true in most cases, I have experienced. Most people say "Don't blame the equipment, blame the player," but that isn't the case all the time! And it makes me mad when ppl say it! Cuz I can usually get a good sound out of any bass clarinet, but when one is squeeking and making ungodly sounds, it is usually the instrument being out of repair.
Like my awesome Selmer 37 that I used in college. On good days, it sounded great. When I would play something, it came out bad, and the director would look at me like I killed a cat, I would give it to the instrument manager, and with a flick of a screw driver or a bending of a rod, it would play great again.
Bass clarinet comes out of alignment very easily. It's because everything is so large, it's easy to bend something or bring something out of adjustment.
I'm glad to hear the good news on your bass!
--CG
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2005-10-25 05:23
I agree that good set-up is critical to having your axe cut the mustard.
I just had my Bb sopo reincarnated, and the improvement in MY playing is getting noticed. The horn emits more of the notes I finger, and the intonation is so close to right, right out of the horn, that it is much easier to play in tune.
The experience of once again having an instrument that plays FOR ME caused me to turn in my nasty, nasty Antiqua tenor (rental). I had that horn to a tech three times trying to get it to speak in the low register; we failed.
It is really disturbing to know that some poor student is going to be saddled with that pig and have his/er progress limited by the equipment.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2005-10-25 11:38
Wow!!! Cork pads on a bass. You and the repair tech are brave indeed. I would fear having something falling out of adjustment just thumping around the case on the way to the next gig. Cork is definitely the weapon of choice for sopranos - a bit more robust if only due to the relatively shorter length of the keys to the bass.
I have just had a long struggle with a German dealer over the virtues of cork over leather which I lost (most ungraciously I might add). Apparently German clarinet players not only don't understand cork pads, they won't play on anything other than white leather pads ("schade").
Any thoughts from the international community?
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2005-10-25 14:18
I'll second the equipment defect issue as being the greatest problem with bass clarinets. The problems are two-fold:
1) The horns are very often "community property", owned by a school rather than by an individual. Unless one person controls the horn, there are going to be handling issues, assembly issues, and "getting kicked around in the horn room" issues.
I regressed when in high school when I was shifted from clarinet (my own) back to bass clarinet (due to a student death (drugs) right before a fall concert) with the Overture to Candide on the bill. While my old horn (at that time since sold) allowed me to play bass about like a clarinet, the school horn was atrocious. However, I paid for my own service call (a whole fifteen bucks at the time) to have it brought into adjustment, and things were fine again.
2) Old cases can contribute to this problem as well. By their very cost and nature, most bass clarinets are going to have been "around" for a lot longer than most sopranos. The cases take more "wear" over the years, and some are not very well constructed in the first place. As the joint rattle about in the case, there are going to be minor impacts on the "long joint" long keys that are going to throw them out of alignment, and thus are created the leaks that bedevil the instrument.
(I've never had the same thing occur with bassoons, but most bassoon cases are superior in construction to your typical bass clarinet effort. Those long "clapper" style keys on the bassoon would be excellent candidates for the same kind of damage, but they wouldn't come into play as much in any event, I would guess.)
The progress to quality bass clarinet performance remains more or less in the following form:
"STEP ONE: Get your "own" horn (either de facto (a school horn that you have sole control of) or de jure (one that you own outright), then get it serviced by a technician who understands the double register mechanism.
STEP TWO: Practice, practice, practice"
A very simple program, actually
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-10-25 14:58
Very well said, Terry, am in complete agreement, may I add, to be ever alert to possible changes in the variety of adjustments required for squeek-less playing. Starting up in conc. band reh., after a few "honks" to be sure the reed-mp are working together, I view the DRK mechanisms critically, being sure of the complete closing of the neck's reg. key via the lowG/D pad's touch and then run up and down the break to be sure. Then back to reh. the "difficult" parts, tune up [little needed with the adjusted neck-slide, as long as our cl/oboe are consistent]. Some "found" problems can be cured at reh. IF you have studied-out the mechanics, others like loose pads will prob. need "skilled help". Read on the Yahoo Bass-Clarinet, also, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-10-25 14:58
Bass clarinets are like older Italian cars -- you typically spend more time working on them than playing/driving them.
I'm qualified to say that as I own or have owned eight Italian cars in my life and at least that many bass clarinets.
It's very frustrating at times. There have been times in my life (such as now) when I'm tired of fighting the bass clarinet and just don't want to play it any more. It will pass eventually.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-10-25 15:16
Great analogy and observations, D S !! IMVH[umbled]E[xp.], it also applied to some GM models of the 60-90's. As Henry F may have said, "git down and git under". Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Markael
Date: 2005-10-25 16:17
Correction and clarification:
I feel kind of stupid about this, sort of like when you drive away from the mechanic and get the story mixed up five minutes later. As soon as Paul made the post about cork pads I realized my information was wrong.
He did not use cork pads. He used kidskin with resonators and amber shellac. He replaced cheap fish skin that had been applied with hot glue.
The set-up is designed for ease of playing and for resonance. It rocks!
Now that I'm practicing the bass again, I have an additional point about squeaks and squawks. It is still possible to squeak now, except that now it is my fault when it happens.
The clarion register is tricky on bass because it takes just the right embouchure pressure to get the tones right.
In any case, getting the right person to work on your instrument makes all the difference in the world. Kids, don't try this at home!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-10-25 16:34
I wouldn't mind putting cork pads on my bass - but the largest diameter I can get them is 15.5mm - and the top fingerplate pad is 16-16.5mm. So after some keywork surgery I used Glotin white leather pads. But now I've seated the rest of the pads (and sorted out several other things too numerous to mention) my bass works well. Shame Buffet don't get it right to begin with - and they use hot glue to float them in with rather than white shellac.
I've wondered what the German reaction to cork pads is on their clarinets - but if they like their squishy white leather pads, then each to their own.
I personally like the Glotin (CLG) white and brown leather pads as they're very firm, and not squishy under the fingers like some leather pads can be. But I do like the idea of the microfibre artificial leather covered pads, and have yet to investigate.
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