 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-09-10 20:55
Does this matter?
I hear a lot about this reed and that reed on this board, but I was wondering if it matters where the file cut on a reed is in proportion to how long your facing is or curve of the mouthpiece or anything. For instance, I've seen a couple of LaVoz reeds and I thought that the file cut was VERY close to the tip. And I wondered how this would "match" a long facing where the curve isn't supposed to meet the reed until much past that file cut.
Is there anything about this or is this a way to judge whether a reed will work with your mouthpiece or not? Or are the differences in lengths so minute that they don't matter?
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-09-10 23:08
Alexi - You ask a very interesting ? My first thot was that ?when? we find a reed [make-brand-strength] that we think is very good, it is perhaps due to a matching of some ?dimensions?, but of what ? Should the length of the "scrape" be the same as [or related to] the length of the wind-cut, or ? some "thickness" dimension of the reed at the [pivot] point where the mp facing curve begins. Is this sort of thing what you are asking ?? Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-09-11 02:24
Machts nicht, methinks. Other characteristics of the reed are much more important. Others had better disagree, or this thread will not be very interesting (which is the greatest crime, I would say).
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-09-11 03:58
A reed will perform to its best potential when the initial scrape matches as closely as possible to the opening of the window on the mouthpiece.
Using one example:
As most know, one of the differences between V12 and traditional Vandoren Blue Box reeds (besides the difference in the thickness of the blank) is that the initial scrape of the V12 is lower. The Traditional Blue Box Vandoren reed has its scrape starting higher up towards the tip.
This gives V12 reed has a longer vibration zone than the Traditional Blue Box reed.
Therefore V12 reeds will usually perform better on a mouthpiece with a longer length facing.
Traditional Vandoren reeds will work better on mouthpieces with a medium or medium short facing.
Gonzalez FOF and Gonzalez Regular Cut (RC) reeds work similarly, with the FOF reed having the longer vibrational zone caused by the initial scrape being lower on the reed.
As most beginning and intermediate students use a mouthpiece with a medium facing, rather than a long facing, I always recommend that they use the Gonzalez Regular Cut reed. If a teacher is partial to Vandoren reeds, then the traditional Blue Box reed usually performs better on a medium length mouthpiece than the V12...GBK
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-09-11 16:04
Does anyone really know the mechanics of reed vibration inside one's mouth? Regardless of anything else doesn't one's lips dampen the reed vibration?
Bob Draznik
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-09-11 20:19
Don,
GBK pretty much rephrased the question correctly for me. I was wondering if the scrape of the reed should match the window of the mouthpiece. He also basically confirmed what I might have thought (that the shorter lengths of mouthpieces should have a reed with a file-cut closer to it's tip). It was just something I was thinking of when I was playing and lining up my reed to my particularly long-facing mouthpiece.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-10-20 19:34
Another thought/lingering question in my mind . . .
Would the length of the reed being vibrated contribute to the perceived "darkness/brightness" of sound? A very subjective question, I know, but in general, I've read many posts debating how thick reed blanks are "darker" than their thin blank equivalents. However in addition to thickness, the scrapes are also different (V12 has more 'tip' to vibrate before the scrape than would a blue box vandy, and similarly with the gonzalez RC and FOF).
Any validation in that thinking or is it too abstract of a concept (light/dark) with too many variables to attribute it to the scrape of a reed (or even thickness for that matter)?
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2005-10-20 22:19
My thoughts on this matter are that the differences in the dimensions of the reeds in general make only the most subtle changes in sound/response until you get to much greater size differences such as that between a standard Vandoren and a White Master. There, the White Master is made to fit the dramatically smaller German mouthpiece (dimensions provided to Vandore by Leister) and the resultant acoustic difference provides the characteristic German sound (however you want to describe that).
Having played for years on Oehler system horns and playing side by side with Boehms it became clear that the difference in sound is 80% acoustic and by the numbers. But it requires a substantial difference in the overall dimensions and ratios of those dimensions to have a real affect.
.........Paul Aviles
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2005-10-21 05:03
Bob D,
I doubt that anyone (yet) has a total understanding of the mechanics of reed vibration.
I'm a mechanical engineer by ancient training and am pretty good with mechanical vibrations. I thought that a single reed is just a tapered cantilever beam flapping against the lay of the mouthpiece.
Then, I replaced my old tin ligature with a Rovner. According to my hypothesis, it would make no difference --still a stiff moment connection at the base of the "diving board." NOT TRUE. A good example of a piece of data invalidating a hypothesis --making it impossible to grow it into a theory.
This is a great topic for a doctoral dissertation --along with the blown-out horn hypothesis.
How can we encourage study of these important issues on the technical side of our university campuses?
Music majors UNITE. Get over to the engineering schools and generate some excitement.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2005-10-21 10:41
CALLING ALL STUDENTS AT GEORGIA TECH !!!!
What a great idea Mr. Phillips, and GA is the place to start. There are a bunch of scientific types down there with a really solid music program filled with terrific clarinet players. Do I hear "The Buzz?"
............Paul Aviles
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2005-10-22 03:36
Alexi asks: I was wondering if the scrape of the reed should match the window of the mouthpiece.>>
The answer is yes.
ALSO:
The width of the reed at the tip should match the width of the tip area of your mouthpiece.
The resistance contour of the reed should match the length and curve of the facing of your mouthpiece.
The curve of the tip of the reed should match the curve of the tip rail of your mouthpieces.
Etc..........
I find it very productive to think of the reed and mouthpiece as a "matched set".
When we have mismatches, we can still play, but a lot of inefficiency creeps into the system.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
"Making Clarinet Reeds By Hand"
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Author: Guy13
Date: 2005-10-22 15:26
Good evening, I am one debutant, in France and I come every day on your forum which I find interresting, enriching on the clarinet and other musical subjects.
Especially I like to find your sympatic environment .
I seek also more scientific information on the nozzle, the reed and his best position.
I found a subject of Ircam, in French, on a study on the reed's vibrations, the mpc and the clarinet. There are no badly graphs which will speak to an engineer.
Guy
http://recherche.ircam.fr/equipes/repmus/AtiamRapportsJuil0304/lizee.pdf
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