The Ethnic Clarinet
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Author: fredd
Date: 2005-10-13 14:08
Hello everybody
I discovered this forum a few weeks ago, and was very happy to find a place with a lot of persons as mad as me about clarinet!
First of all let me introduce myself. My name is Frederic, I’m 28 and I live in France (so excuse my mistakes in English! I’ll try to do my best!) .I started the clarinet when I was 8. I first took music lessons, classical music, and then switched for jazz big bands. After that when I was a student I played in many bands with friends of mine in different styles: funk music, reggae and ska music... But I discovered klezmer and “eastern music” and since I love even more my instrument...And I understood that there is a lot of job to do to learn and understand all these music that I don’t know well enough…
I started to play in a trio, music with french lyrics, and tried to “klezmerize” my game. Now we are 6 in the band, and the new instrumentist (violin and trombone) helped to make our music sounds “eastern”, as they were first musicians in folks bands and knows a lot about jewish or klezmer standards. We recorded a first album in last april.
I play the Bb clarinet E13 BUFFET, but I am also a fanatic collection and player of all the clarinet “cousins”. I first discovered the American metal clarinets. I don’t agree with some people on the site that said it can’t be a good instrument. It is true that many are of poor quality. But some ”pro” models have been made, and they’re nice! I own two CUNDY BETTONEY (seems to be one of the best metal clarinets maker in the 1920’s). One Bb silva bet, that needs repairs but which sounds great, and a Eb one.
For New Orleans they both sound great! With the Eb and a good vibrato you can almost dream you’re sidney BECHET! I also tried the Eb in “ klezmer style” musics, as solist, or when played as a “contre chant” above violin and trombone. And it is nice, especially in the high register, which is very brilliant and clear.
Then I bought a Turkish G metal one in Istanbul, the same R KOR than many of you. Maybe it is of poor quality, but it is really a great instrument. It was very difficult to learn at the beginning, It hurts the hand with this big spaces between the holes. And the albert system needs a few month to be learned. But after a few month I could play interesting things. But I did it with my B45 Lyra + reeds 2.5 (as usual for me). The original mouth piece seemed unplayable for me at this time. So with my B45 lyra it sounded roughly like a Bb metal one. Good but not very original.
3month ago another clarinetist told me to try again this original mouthpiece with soft reeds as turkish clarinetist do. I did with a “1” reed and it is really a new instrument now. The low register is deep and fascinating, very powerfull. The high register is also terrific, powerfull. It is possible to find harmonics very easyily by overblowing, that gives many possibilities of fingerings in the high uppper register.
Questions:
Does anyone knows these turkish mouthpiece? The only thing written on it is the number 7. It seems very opened. Is it similar to a JB 45?
I could not find in turkey other better models than the REKOR.
Do you think there is a pro model in metal??
Some of you talk about a wooden G clarinet (I saw some in istanbul but I was told it was very poor quality). What do the turkish virtuose (like mustapha KANDIRALI ) play? Wood or metal?
Where do people play this wooden G clarinet? Wich system? Boehm or albert?
Does Ivo PAPAZOV plays a G clarinet?
My last folie is a taragot (or tarogato).I had the chance to find a good one. I was told that romanian ones where of poor quality, not capable to reach the octave register. Mine is hungarian, a copy of stowasser model (the most famous ones it seems), but not made of “rich “ wood but of resonite I guess. The guy who sold it tome also owned a real Stowasser in very good wood that I tried. It was really terrific, the sound was so beautifull! He also owned a very rare bass tarogato, an incredible long conic tube that reach your feets!
Mine is a GREGUS PAL one, who sounds very good. I worked hard my taragot and start to have results. I can reach the two and half octaves. The fingering is rougly the same albert than the turkish clarinet. I use a “2” clarinet reed, the original specific mouthpiece I have is not opend enough to play with softer reeds.
Questions:
Did anyone tried to play the taragot with a soprano sax mouthpiece? I read on the net that it it was possible.
Does anyone here knows tips about tarogato playing??
Last thing: I continue to look for unusual clarinets.Does anyone knows other cousins?
Is the Klarino used in Greece a C albert clarinet? Does it make a specific sound or is it comparable to a Bb boehm?
I also heard of diatonic clarinets.It is used in a part of France, the Brittany. It seems to have a very important place in their music, from the celtic family. Does anyone knows about it or play of it?
I also found out an excellent site a bout the clarinet in the musics of the world, continent by continent with many references. It also tries to reference all the ancesters of clarinets in the world music, from very primitive form to elaborate ones, but it is in french!!
But everybody can understand the references.
HYPERLINK "http://www.lamediatheque.be/documents/" www.lamediatheque.be/documents/clarinette/introduction.htm
Another good link about taragot:
http://hungaria.Org/hal/folklor/tarogato
If anybody has good sites about clarinet, please let me know.
Thanks in advance for your answers and see you.
Musical salutations
fred
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Author: dp
Date: 2005-10-16 11:39
Hello Fredd,
Good luck with your endeavours. Well, Mustafa plays a metal G clarinet, Albert of course. In Greece Makis Vasileiades plays a wooden G.
Last year the Sulukule groups with Senledirici on clarinet were in Athens. Like almost all Turks, Erkose for example, he plays a wooden German made G.
Papazof plays Boehm.
The metal Turkish G my son plays is quite good, while the one of a friend is adequate but not as good. The cheap wooden G's you saw in Istanbul were most likely made of olive-tree wood, which is not hard enough nor does it mature well. They are probably good enough, although I doubt it, for young learners.
Hammerschmidt are stiil producing wooden G's, so I hear, but only on order.
Some months ago the wooden G that belonged to Arahovas, a clarinettist and repairman in Athens, was available for sale. I saw it and "handled" it and I would say it must be still available considering the asking price.
Again, "bonne chance"
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2005-10-16 12:25
Bonjour Frederic,
I would like to clarify one thing that dp said...Papazov plays a Full Boehm (Selmer Series 10) and uses that extra Eb at the bottom.
Additionally, there is a clarinetist here in the US who plays an Orsi German system wooden G clarinet. I got the chance to try it once and I loved it! For me, it was easier to play than my metal one because of the distance between the back of the clarinet and the front. My right hand was much happier reaching the lower notes with the added diameter! Plus, the wood is much less slippery than the metal. My fingers are very dry and don't do well with the metal.
Katrina
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Author: fredd
Date: 2005-10-17 11:00
thanks katrina for your comments.
My first e mail was a bit too long with too many question maybe! so I ask you again one. Do you know about the original turkish mouthpiece I have, with the number 7 as the only things written on it? Maybe I should measure it to know if it is equivalent or even more opened than a JB 45.
fred
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Author: fredd
Date: 2005-10-17 14:43
thanks dp for your explanations. I'll try to know more about hammershmidt products.
Does your son use a turkish mouthpiece for his metal clarinet?
bye and thanks again
fredd
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Author: buedsma
Date: 2005-10-25 11:37
have the same clarinet !
i will check the mouthpiece number ==> but i noticed that standard reeds are a bit small for the turkish mouthpiece .
I use an old leblanc mouthpiece with a very soft reed ( 1.5 )
Very nice in the lower register , a bit diificult to ocntrol over and around the break .
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Author: buedsma
Date: 2005-10-25 11:41
www.bueds.be/clarinet
www.bueds.be/webmuziek
for some links
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Author: dp
Date: 2005-10-27 12:17
Well.... I made a lot of inquiries and got more suggestions which made things quite confusing. Most use the same mpc they use when playing A's or Bb's... I find it strange. Someone said that there is an Amati, of all makers!, who make a G mpc.... Zinner, at least, does not mention a G mpc on his site.
Sorry, I can't be of much help.
dp
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Author: Kalakos
Date: 2005-10-27 19:34
Hi;
For what it's worth, here is my experience with G clarinets.
A few years ago I tried 3 or 4 metal Turkish G clarinets. They played fine with my regular Bb or C mouthpiece.
Just received my new Amati G klarino (clarinet). It has an Amati mouthpiece; same length as Bb mpc, but very narrow inside. I, of course, am still trying it out, but my Borbeck #14 seems to work better. Another very good clarinetist I know (Dixieland jazz style) makes mouthpieces. He says the Amati G mpc is an excellent one.
Great tone on the klarino by the way!!
Good luck.
Kalakos
Kalakos Music
http://www.TAdelphia.com
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Author: fredd
Date: 2005-10-28 14:12
thanks for your help !!
Hope you enjoy your turkish clarinet! I definitly do!!
see you`
fredd
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Author: fredd
Date: 2005-10-28 14:12
thanks a lmot dp
I 'll check information on amati web site...
see you
fredd
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Author: fredd
Date: 2005-10-28 14:16
thanks a lot for your answers.
I hope you'll enjoy your new clarinet!! please let me know If the AMATI G clarinet is nice, and also if you like the mouthpiece. Does it look longer than a Bb mouthpiece??
thanks again and see you
fredd
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Author: Kalakos
Date: 2005-10-28 23:56
Hi, fredd: You said "thanks a lot for your answers.
I hope you'll enjoy your new clarinet!! please let me know If the AMATI G clarinet is nice, and also if you like the mouthpiece. Does it look longer than a Bb mouthpiece??"
The mouthpiece is the same size as Bb mpc, but seems more narrow inside than any others I have. My Borbeck #14 really sounds good with this G klarino!
The Amate G is really well made; it sounds "tromero" as we Greeks say; a very nice tone, especially for Epirotika!
There is a slight squeak problem moving to the second octaves, and I know it's not me. May have a slight leak, but I'm working on it. Really a great tone and for me, at least, very good intonation.
I would have preferred no "eyeglasses" (rings) on the upper joint and a couple of fewer keys, but it is good. I recommend Graham Golden for these Amatis.
Kalakos
Kalakos Music
http://www.TAdelphia.com
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Author: Binman
Date: 2005-12-07 00:00
I am curious as to how much I would pay for a Turkish metal G clarinet, same type as your good self fredd. (Bought in Turkey of course)
ta
Danz
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Author: dp
Date: 2005-12-07 12:22
For a used one, but in good state, an amount of US$ 150.00 should be a fair price.
dp
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Author: Binman
Date: 2005-12-15 16:31
whats a good make though for a turkish g clarinet. R KOR? cant find any info for that if it's a make. Anybody know good site for information on buying one... where? How much ? etc
Danz
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Author: Bass
Date: 2005-12-16 19:02
I've had the AMATI G Clarinet for about 1.5 years and love it, and i agree with Kalakos, its got to be a leak that makes that squeaky sound. Have you listen to Husnu Senlendirici latest CD, he is amazing with his high notes. Also if you like to see and hear how a metal G clarinet sounds when played by a professional go to my website and listen to Lefteris Bournias on VIDEO page. I don’t know who is maker but I’ll find out.
www.greek-turkish-clarinet.com
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Author: martinbaxter
Date: 2006-04-13 14:18
Hi! I'm Martin
I am English, a former woodwind teacher and live in Ulverston, Cumbria; best known as the birthplace of Stan Laurel of Laurel & Hardy.
Re this original inquiry about Turkish clarinet mouthpieces and reeds.
The original mouthpiece on my turkish clarinet works OK with a soprano sax reed Vandoren No.1 but rather better with a cut down alto sax reed. I also use sop. sax reeds on my tarogato, but that needs a 2 or 2.5, even a Rico Royal 3. The sound with a more conventional m"piece is quite different. although quite acceptable; probably what a clarinet d'amore should sound like.
Is the Amati G clarinet the high Schrammel ork. pitch or the Turkish pitch? I 've got the Naxos recording Music from Old Vienna - Thalia Schrammeln) and fancy trying some Schrammelmusik.
Martin
Phone 01229583504
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Author: martinbaxter
Date: 2006-04-23 10:41
fredd if you are looking for unusual clarinets investigate the "picksusse Holtzl. It is a clarinet in high G used in traditional Viennese music (also known as Schrammelmusik). To hear it, brilliantly played (by Gerald Grunbacher) get the Naxos recording " Music from Old Vienna (8.550228). You might have to import it direct.
I hoped that the Amati clarinet was this instrument but I think the one I want is an octave higher. However SOMEBODY must make them.
Martin
Phone 01229583504
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Author: Marius
Date: 2008-03-23 06:36
Hi Fred,
This post is regarding the Taragot mouthpiece. I have never tried a sopranosax mouthpiece on the Taragot. Usually the Taragot players make their own mouthpieces, and that is why if you listen carefully two taragot players will never have the same tone even though they are playing the same instrument. In Romania there are three major styles of mouthpieces used.
The Banat region uses a type of mouthpiece in which the chamber was filled up ( usually with rubber of the same material of which the mouthpiece was constructed), so the chamber of the mouthpiece is very very small. This will give a very metallic sound. One of the best Taragot player from Banat is Luca Novac. If you go on youtube you will be able o listen some great music played by him.
The Maramures/Grosi region they use a mouthpiece in which the chamber of the mouthpiece is totally empty. This will give a darker woodier tone. Dumitru Farcas is considered the God of taragot. He is playing this kind of mouthpiece, and also Dumitru Dobrican, Ioan Berci (unbelievable beautiful tone) and extremmely woody Nelu Gabor.
The third style will fall in between this two as tone quality and is found in Transilvania, especially in Fagaras region. Gheorghe Trambitas is a virtuoso from Fagaras. He has a new album out called " The Voice of the Taragot." It is a great album and I really recommend it.
Now assuming you do not know how to build your own mouthpiece I can tell you that I've come across a gentlemen that lives in Chicago, USA. His name is Ioan Scaunas. In my opinion he is one of the best taragot mouthpiece builder. He has been making taragot mouthpieces for over 17 years. I found one of his mouthpieces on eBay♠, where he occasionally lists them, and i must say i am thrilled with the mouthpiece. They are relatively not expensive ( around $200) and prior shipping i got in contact with him so that he build mine after my preferences. So, keep an eye on eBay. I have his contact information and i will be willing to give them to you upon his approval.
The taragot is a great instrument to which i am totaly in love with. I am an amator player but i can get enough of it.
Be careful because on eBay I've seen many taragots for sale that are listed as brand and country unknown. Those are usually Romanian taragots, brand Timis, and as you said they are of a poor quality. They do not worth more than $600 ( and that if in good condition). These do not have a serial number printed on the instrument ( nobody knows why:)). Now a Hungarian Stowasser is a difrent story. They worth much more around $ 5000, and they are great instruments. I've read somewhere on the web a great characterization of them: " The Stradivarius of the woodwinds" I like that. There are few ok brands as well, like Magyoroshi and Schunda. This are Hungarian as well and Hammerschmidt from Germany. From what i remember but i could be wrong the last two use a clarinet like mouthpiece ( this is the way it mounts to the instrument).
Enjoy your Taragot!
Marius
mariuscuciulan@yahoo.com
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Author: Savage
Date: 2008-12-01 05:19
Hope someone can help me.
I'm lookimg for a used wooden (Turkish-Greek) clarinet in "G".
I've seen used ones in metal, but I prefer the warmth of wooden model.
I know Amati makes a "G" clarinet (Albert only). It's also very expensive. What other companies manufactor wooden "G" clarinets.
I heard that there were companies in Europe, but I couldn't find any websites, phone numbers or addresses.
Steve
The Greek Company Orchestra
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Author: Savage
Date: 2008-12-01 05:26
Fredd,
Does anyone make a "professional" Bb clarinet reed in size "1"
I know they offer them in student reeds. The lightest (professional) I could find was in a "1.5"
Steve
The Greek Company Orchestra
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Author: Savage
Date: 2008-12-01 05:38
Fredd,
What's the best way to mic a clarinet? Does anyone have any experience witjh the PT Series of (in Barrel) pick-ups? Can anyone recomend this pick-up? Which of the PT models do you like best?
Also, is anyone using an "octave" pedal? I know they're usually used for guitars. Has anyone had any success with them?
I know there are some pedals that can play both an octave "higher" and and octave "lower" than the playing note. Is anyone using such a pedal, and what do you think of it?
Last question. Does anyone manufactor an octave pedal specifically for the clarinet?
Steve
The Greek Company Orchestra
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Author: buedsma
Date: 2009-01-20 11:22
never found a number one clarinet reed.
On the reed that came with my clarinet was mentioned : rosier and the number one. Never found anything relating to this name.
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Author: newlife2001
Date: 2010-02-04 03:58
It's been a long time since you posted your message but here goes.
How about a brand new clarinet that's made out of Grenadilla wood (although it's listed as "ebony" online) and not terribly expensive? From China Music Instruments:
Professional model, brown ebony body, italy pads, usd265.20
www.xuqiumusic.com
with shipping to New York and the Western Union fee I paid USD343.40
It comes with a hard case and mouthpiece. I'll probably buy an Eddie Daniels ligature later. I mean, with the price on the instrument ...
I'm not an expert at the G clarinet! I play b-flat clarinet and alto sax. I recently got into Persian music and by extension Turkish etc. I think my Turkish G clarinet blows fine. The wood is dark brown in color. Beautiful, really.
I have a French Martinaux B--flat clarinet made out of Dalbergia Melanoxylon, African blackwood, a type of grenadilla . I bought that used for $500.00 here in New York City. I also prefer the natural sound and feeling of wood. The Chinese instrument sounds basically the same to me. The reed I'm using on the G-clarinet is a Rico Royal 1, French file cut. I buy them online.
Adam
Post Edited (2010-02-06 00:01)
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Author: Kalakos
Date: 2010-02-04 21:13
I know several people who have complained about the absolute poor quality of some of these instruments. They have said to avoid them, period. The G (SOL) clarinets that seem to play well for people and to be worth the money are the Amati, and even better, the Karl Hammerschmidt "Klingson" models in G. All the pros seem to play the Amati's and Hammerschidt's. I've owned both brands.
I owned an Amati and sold it to a friend because I liked the Hammerschmidt G that I now own. I like it better because it is the "mono do" (no patent C#) and no upper rings, no lower trill key model. For me, its sound is better. However, some of my friends prefer the Amati because of its "diplo do" (patent C#) and rings and extra keys. It's all a matter of choice.
Here's a picture with my Amati G klarino that I sold on the left:
http://greekfolkmusicanddance.com/photoalbum/klarinaCBbAG.jpg
You can find more information on the web site, Greek Turkish Clarinet forum:
http://www.gtc-music1.com/forum/index.php
I am one of the moderators, Kalakos.
Good luck.
Kalakos
Kalakos Music
http://www.TAdelphia.com
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Author: newlife2001
Date: 2010-02-05 03:08
To Kalakos, regarding post of Thursday, February 4, 2010 5:13 PM and everyone else in the forum, of course
Kalakos wrote:
> I know several people who have complained about the absolute
> poor quality of some of these instruments. They have said to
> avoid them, period.
I'm not sure to exactly what model of clarinet your colleagues were referring to. For example, the other G clarinet I saw on the China Musical Instrument Company website was listed as:
Popular model, Bakelite body, usd 166.50
Bakelite is a moldable plastic. If they did buy a clarinet made out of that material what did they expect it to sound like?
I just realized something remarkable about the G clarinet I purchased from China. The manufacturer lists it as being made from "ebony" wood. When I got it, the wood was brown and I was surprised. The company did not intentionally misrepresent the product. I thought ebony wood was always black. [Until very recently I thought my French Martinaux B-flat was made out of ebony. Well, I was wrong about that. My Martinaux is actually made out of Dalbergia Melanoxylon, African blackwood, a type of grenadilla.]
There are actually 300 species of ebony wood. I believe my G clarinet is made from one is called "Brown Ebony" (very heavy and hard, not a true ebony, chocolate brown with fine dark stripes). And the species classification according biologists is Caesalspinia granadillo, brown ebony.
The design of my G clarinet seems like a direct copy of the Serkan Cagri model from Karl Hammerschmidt and Sons. It looks exactly like that. I can't determine if the F-key was egonomically optimized. I'll assume it wasn't. Hammerschmidt lists the retail price in Germany as $2,746.94 USD. I paid $343.40 including shipping. From China the New York City. I'm astonished ... almost embarrassed. It might even be real.
http://karl-hammerschmidt-klarinetten.de/g_klarinetten.htm
By the way, I certainly don't work for the China Music Company. You can find them on Alibaba.com if you are interested. I'm just sharing.
And yes, I would steer clear of the bakelite. No offense to our honorable neighbors to the East, but a lot of plastic toys have been recalled from that part of the world, so ... proceed with caution, by all means.
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Author: nero
Date: 2011-12-07 08:16
I'm late coming to this party but I have a simple question that any/all g clarinet players who own their own instruments can answer. What is the spacing of naturally-placed fingers 1-3, 4-6 on a typical g clarinet? I keep reading in various posts that it is quite wide.
Reason: I purchased a D wooden French 19th century flute, lined up a teacher and was ready to take lessons when the teacher's husband died and she couldn't provide her students with any lessons for a month or so, which more than ran-out my 14 day return option for the instrument. Quite a few bucks down the drain.
I can handle an oboe, c clarinet, alto recorder. I'm 5'10" , can get well over an octave on a piano/harpsichord but the spread of 1-3, 4-6 of my hands is just not up to wide spreads.
Please provide measurement(s) in mm, cm or inches of hole 1 to 3 and 4 to 6 for a typical g alto clarinet.
Thank you all in advance,
nero
_____
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