 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ACCA
Date: 2020-09-01 18:58
Vandoren supplies all its reeds individually wrapped for "freshness" or "humidity control". In plastic, with a further plastic reed holder inside. I wonder what the environmental impact of that quantity of plastic is over the course of a year or decade. I also wonder what the science is on having wrapped reeds- I'm very sceptical. Surely any supposed advantage of sealing is reversed once you've opened the package. I recently bought some Pilgerstorfers which are neatly encased in a recycled cardboard holder, in a recycled cardboard box. Much happier with those reeds by the way. I wonder if there's a way the single-reed-playing community could petition and pressure vandoren, an any other similar offenders, into cleaning up their act. Apologies if this topic has been addressed before here.
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2020-09-01 19:23
Yes, every bit counts.
But given that ten plastic reed holds use (I'm estimating) about 1/50 of the plastic of a quart milk bottle, shouldn't the petitions and pressure be concentrated elsewhere? The environmental impact of a few thousand clarinet players pitching plastic reed holders pales in comparison to the millions and millions of people pitching plastic milk bottles.
Unless one has all the time and money in the world to go after every "offender," one must pick one's battles, and I don't think plastic reed holder manufacturers are very high on the list.
Let the flames begin.
B.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2020-09-01 20:41
bmcgar wrote:
> Yes, every bit counts.
>
> But given that ten plastic reed holds use (I'm estimating)
> about 1/50 of the plastic of a quart milk bottle, shouldn't the
> petitions and pressure be concentrated elsewhere? The
> environmental impact of a few thousand clarinet players
> pitching plastic reed holders pales in comparison to the
> millions and millions of people pitching plastic milk bottles.
I won't contradict you where the volume of plastic is concerned. But one difference is in the recyclability of bottles vs reed holders.
In my area recycling plastic bottles is mandatory, and they do whatever it is they're doing these days once the plastic gets to the waste collection plant. (I hear that there's not enough machinery to actually recycle all of the collected plastic so some it still goes into landfills, but in theory it could all be melted down and reused for something).
The recycling collectors here don't even want the reed storage containers (or plastic bottle caps) - they're apparently too small and jam up the sorting machines.
So, while some of the bottles may not get usefully recycled, none of the reed holders do, at least where I live. What's really needed is a better, more complete plastic recycling program. Even when we were ducking the problem and shipping it all to China, they were apparently just piling it up and storing it (for a price). Now, from what I read, even that is no longer happening and we're left stuck with all of our own plastic refuse.
One way to cut down on it, of course, would be to avoid using plastic where something else more eco-friendly would do just as well - like paper and cardboard.
Karl
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2020-09-01 20:57
ACCA wrote:
> I also wonder what the science is on having wrapped
> reeds- I'm very sceptical. Surely any supposed advantage of
> sealing is reversed once you've opened the package.
I've always wondered if they're trying to seal something in or to seal something out. Either way, I agree that once you've opened the foil packaging, whatever was being protected is completely exposed to whatever the Pilgerstorfers and other reeds packaged in paper and cardboard are. I don't notice for myself that Vandoren reeds show any particular superiority for their more protective packaging.
I have friends who make a practice of taking their VD reeds out of the foil wrapping and letting them sit in the local air for a couple of weeks before trying to use them.
> I wonder if there's a way
> the single-reed-playing community could petition and pressure
> vandoren, an any other similar offenders, into cleaning up
> their act.
Decades ago, when I first began to encounter plastic reed holders - I think they might have been Luries while Vandoren was in a U.S. distribution dispute with, I think, Carl Fischer - I complained and very naively asked the company if they'd take the holders back. The response was "yes" (at my expense for the shipping) but they never promised to reuse them. I realize now that they probably trashed them just as I would have at home. Since then, of course, RICO (over their entire line of brand names) and Vandoren have expanded plastic holders to all of their reeds.
Karl
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2020-09-01 21:20
My understanding is that China for some years took in the majority of the world's plastic waste, and they actually recycled it into other products. A couple years ago they stopped doing that, in part because the level of impurities (electronics etc.) in the material sent by the US and other countries made its use too expensive. Maybe the trade war was coincidental.
What I'm told is happening now, in my area (Vermont) and most of the United States, is plastic that's disposed of "properly" is being landfilled. Packaging producers have no interest in spending more on recycled plastic, and for whatever reasons new petroleum-based materials are preferred. Industry seems intent on transferring any disposal and other environmental costs to end users of various products - who had little to no say in choosing packaging material.
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2020-09-01 21:44
Shortly after Vandoren started packing every single plastic reed holder in more plastic, I signed a European petition for them to stop this practice. It obviously didn't get enough support because Vandoren didn't change anything.
Does anybody honestly believe that the quality of the reeds has improved since Vandoren started doing this? I don't. I WISH Vandoren would start packaging their reed like companies sich as Pilgerstorfer, Arundos, Leuthner, Gonzales etc. all of whom make very fine reeds without plastic covering.
Perhaps we should start another petition?
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2020-09-01 22:48
Maybe instead of a petition players should just boycott the reeds and send Vandoren a letter telling them why. I know there are many players who prefer Vandorens over any of the alternatives (aren't there?), but if a boycott were to have any effect, it would be very quick. If Vandoren took enough of a market hit, everyone could go happily back to using them, packed in cardboard, within a short time.
I'm always curious if there are Vandoren users who actually like and support the current packaging and, if so, why.
Karl
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Author: jthole
Date: 2020-09-07 11:47
@Liquorice, I signed that same petition back then, and I still feel strongly about it.
First of all, in my opinion the reeds did not improve since the days they were shipped in the purple boxes, without the wrapping. Secondly, several other brands ship their reeds without the foil wraps, and they are absolutely fine.
I do like Vandoren reeds, but each time I open a wrapper, it bothers me how much trash I have to throw away. I would be much happier if they just sent them in a paper box, with paper wraps around the reeds.
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