 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: graham
Date: 2018-12-02 01:28
I think I know what people are going to say about this, but thought I would ask anyway.
There is a passage marked 'solo' on the bass, at fig. 167, in the famous section (featured most in Suite 2) which is in four sharps and goes back and forth across the break, and is pretty obviously untypical of bass writing. When looking at the part as a whole my impression is that Ravel wanted the lower bass notes in places, but did not want the player to have to change instruments, so he uses the bass also as a de facto 3rd clarinet simply by writing up the octave. To me, the above passage seems like that. Having listened to a recording, I cannot see anything particularly bassy about it.
Leaving aside a lack of time for change over (sadly, a real issue), it seems to me that it could be transcribed onto soprano A clarinet and would be much easier and better. My question is whether anyone (particularly professional bass players) have ever done that, and, if so, whether Maestro noticed.
Expecting the usual stuff about respecting the composer's wishes, but it does seem so obviously better.
Thanks
graham
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Author: Chris Horril
Date: 2018-12-02 14:26
Hi Graham - IMHO any workaround that makes the unplayable playable (especially in that piece) is entirely legitimate if it works! Chris
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Author: Ken Lagace
Date: 2018-12-02 16:56
I played Daphnis a few times in my career on Eb and never noticed any bass player having trouble playing the part. Studying with Kal Opperman in the 1960's, he had all his students practically memorize all four parts. If an orchestra is going to play it, all the winds would be able to cut it as written.
It is an interesting idea though.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2018-12-02 18:56
graham wrote:
> Leaving aside a lack of time for change over (sadly, a real
> issue), it seems to me that it could be transcribed onto
> soprano A clarinet and would be much easier and better. My
> question is whether anyone (particularly professional bass
> players) have ever done that, and, if so, whether Maestro
> noticed.
>
Those notes lie more easily than most of the similar passage work in the 1st and 2nd parts. Whatever Ravel's intent was for the sound of that passage, he wrote it for a bass - at least he used a Bb instrument.
To answer your questions directly, I've never seen it played on anything but a bass. Unless you bring in a fifth player just for this passages in this section, it can't be done on a soprano instrument for the reason you've already given - the surrounding thematic notes can't be played at the right octave on a smaller clarinet.
In any case, you'd have to convince the Principal Clarinet and the conductor to provide the extra player or do without the thematic notes before and (especially) after the passage you've asked about. I can only guess that a competent conductor would notice if you tried to do it surreptitiously (I've never heard it played on anything but a bass either as a section mate or an audience member, so I've never seen anyone try). And then, you still have to play the arguably more awkward passage after 167, where it's a bass solo and EVERYONE in the orchestra who has ever heard the piece would notice if it were played on a soprano.
Karl
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2018-12-02 23:32
Quote:
When looking at the part as a whole my impression is that Ravel wanted the lower bass notes in places, but did not want the player to have to change instruments, so he uses the bass also as a de facto 3rd clarinet simply by writing up the octave...Having listened to a recording, I cannot see anything particularly bassy about it.
If you have performed the bass parts of Ravel's other works you'll notice that he writes for the bass exactly as a clarinet -- as do other composers.
It appears like you're trying to explain the bass part as a make-do arrangement of Ravel's, as opposed to what is true: that Ravel is a master orchestrator and he knew exactly what he was doing with the bass part when he wrote it.
It's not a compromise.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: concertmaster3
Date: 2018-12-03 08:29
In my opinion, as an orchestrator, I think that Ravel placed the part on bass on purpose. He could have easily placed it on Clarinet 2, and done the dove-tailing as he had previously done in the part. But instead, he chose to have it played on bass.
I can't tell you what his reasoning was without a ouija board, but I doubt that this was a mistake or an oversight.
In addition, there are some wickedly hard passages in this piece for all of the instruments, but I don't consider this run to be one of them. Hard? Yes, impossible? No. Just take some time to practice it on your instrument. I think a lot of the difficulty for me when I was learning it was adjusting to where my fingers sat on bass, rather than on soprano.
Ron Ford
Woodwind Specialist
Performer/Teacher/Arranger
http://www.RonFordMusic.com
Post Edited (2018-12-03 08:30)
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The Clarinet Pages
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