 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Jerry
Date: 2014-01-16 00:05
I performed my first ever do it yourself joint cork replacement using this:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001LNFP3W/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
It is a self-adhesive, synthetic cork. Installation took about 3 minutes. It came out great - a perfect fit. Didn't have to mess with any glue.
What has been the longevity experience of others using this product/material?
Jerry
The Villages, FL
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Author: Jerry
Date: 2014-01-16 04:18
It comes in lengths that are roughly 1/4" to 1/3" longer than required. Wrap it around the joint and cut off the excess through both layers to get the best abutment. So yes, before you cut off the excess, the ends overlap.
Jerry
The Villages, FL
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2014-01-16 04:49
I've come across two different type of self-adhesive corks. One is a granular cork-plastic matrix with an adhesive backing, the other appears to be real cork with a plastic adhesive backing layer. The real cork one works OK but the granular matrix type don't last well. Sometimes the adhesive on these is not as good as it should be. I'd only ever regard them as a "get-you-home" fix until you can get it properly repaired.
Tony F.
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Author: TAS
Date: 2014-01-16 00:27
Nothing beats the cork proffered in a few select regions of Portugal. Bill Brannen of Brannen Woodwinds (Evanston IL) the guru of Buffet clarinet repairs since the late 1960's uses this outstanding product.
BTW, if you need your Buffet overhauled, he is the go to guy. A true master.
He does wonders with the action. Absolutely dazzling.
TAS
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-01-16 05:46
Valentino makes (or used to make) a self-adhesive pad, too. They and these corks were included in the repair kits they marketed to school band directors who often need to do emergency repairs and aren't skilled at replacing pads, corks and other damageable instrument parts. (I've been out of school music for 7 years - I don't know what's currently being sold.) The pads weren't their top line product and I assume the cork in this case isn't, either.
That said, if you put one on your clarinet and it works well and doesn't come apart or come off, then it seems fine to use. All it needs to do is make the tenon fit comfortably in the socket. It should also be fine for key silencers.
Karl
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2014-01-16 16:36
PSA (pressure sensitive adhesive) products don't last as long but have their uses. I would keep an extra piece in your case.
In reference to cork from Portugal - almost every repair shop in the country has cork from the same source (in Portugal).
Steve Ocone
Post Edited (2014-01-16 16:37)
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Author: TAS
Date: 2014-01-16 16:51
The grade of the cork, and the specific farm where it is harvested is not what almost every repair shop in the country uses.It is like comparing the steak at Golden Corral with Ruth's Chris.
Using lower grade cork from Portugal or an ersatz substitute is a good way to cut costs on an unsuspecting client.
TAS
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-01-16 14:49
TAS wrote:
>
> Using lower grade cork from Portugal or an ersatz substitute is
> a good way to cut costs on an unsuspecting client.
>
Apart from possible premature failure (breaking or tearing or gradually wearing down too thin for a firm fit), what are the consequences of using "lower grade" cork?
Karl
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Author: BobD
Date: 2014-01-16 15:12
Some time ago I tried to cut costs by trying automotive gasket cork and it was a complete disaster, but I've still got cork in case my valve cover gaskets fail. I also find the imitation cork being used in wine bottles is a pain in the axx. Sometimes the old ways are still best.
Bob Draznik
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-01-16 15:55
BobD wrote:
> Some time ago I tried to cut costs by trying automotive gasket
> cork and it was a complete disaster,
Why? Was it too porous? Too thick? What happened?
Karl
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-01-16 23:24
Rubberised cork in any form is no good for tenons. The hardest will start out far too firm but will soon compress and not recover and the softest peels away from the adhesive (as well as compressing and not recovering).
There's no substitute for good quality natural cork in this instance.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Jerry
Date: 2014-01-16 23:28
Here's to hoping that my synthetic cork is neither the hardest nor the softest, but just right (if that is possible with synthetics). I'll report back the moment it starts to fail.
Jerry
The Villages, FL
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-01-16 23:59
They're alright as an emergency measure (as part of an emergency repair kit) to get you through a gig in an evening or over a weekend if you find one of your tenon corks has come adrift and you can't get it repaired at the time, but as has been proven they don't do well long term.
Buffet and Schreiber used synthetic tenon corks for a while across the board but soon went back to natural after complaints from players and repairers.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-01-17 00:32
Chris P wrote:
> Rubberised cork in any form is no good for tenons.
>
> There's no substitute for good quality natural cork in this
> instance.
>
I wasn't thinking or asking so much about rubberized or synthetic cork. I wondered more about TAZ's saying that "using lower grade cork from Portugal" was like eating steak at Golden Corral.
And, not really tangentially, what are the differences among quality levels of cork, apart from a the number of surface holes, which I know makes low quality cork unsuitable for pads.
Karl
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-01-17 01:45
Too many holes in tenon corks will provide more gaps for cork grease to get through to the glued side which can cause failure. The majority of cork for woodwind use is sourced from Portugal.
But it's hard work trying to get high quality sheet cork nowadays unless you pay a premium for it. Cork pads can only be made from the best quality cork - those with any pores are best used so the pores are either within the tonehole impression or right on the very edge of the pad.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2014-01-17 04:08
There is a wide spectrum of cork "quality" but this also depends on the specific application e.g. wine corks, flooring tiles, woodwind etc etc.
For woodwind the main uses are
pads
tenon corks
bumper corks
and again the requirements vary somewhat i.e. pads need to be pore free but bumper corks need to look "pretty" whereas tenon corks must perform their specific function.
For tenon corks a high degree of resilience and ability to recover from repeated cycles of compression plus a reasonably smooth feel to the joint are key features.
The tendency for cork to always have it's pores filled with a rubbery gunk makes it look pretty but actual diminishes it's functionality as a tenon cork. In my view small pores can actually act as a grease reservoir within the joint.
The only way I have been able to obtain unfilled cork in recent years is to go direct to the original producer in Portugal and specifically ask for my cork to be supplied without this gunk. The producer was quite surprised and said that he had never had this request before but was able to supply me with offcuts from the manufacturing process obtained before the pore filling stage was reached which I have happily been using now for several years.
In general to cork needed for woodwinds comes within the very highest category of general quality and sadly with the demise of corks for the wine trade reducing overall production levels significantly then the amount of high quality cork has also decreased.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-01-17 05:42
While the quality has decreased, the price has increased. So you're hard pushed to get real quality cork unless you pay a premium for it.
I don't tend to use much sheet cork for keywork on clarinets - I use rubco or ultrasuede depending whether the key is closed or open standing. On clarinets I only tend to use a cork stopper on the throat A key and the stopper on the LH2 ring key linkage to keep it raised so it doesn't clatter against the joint and also keeps the linkage raised to make assembly easier if the owner doesn't hold the LH ring keys closed during assembly. On saxes I only use cork for the G# stopper and the RH main action feet if they have round ones (and glue an ultrasuede disc to the body to keep the noise
Only in some instances (eg. oboes and cors) do I use cork for key feet for adjustment purposes (as neither rubco, felt or ultrasuede can be sanded), but use thin rubco for under adjusting screws and linkages as it's hard wearing unlike cork which will disintegrate under concentrated pressure from adjusting screw tips or edges of linkages. down).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2014-01-18 12:55
There is a wide range of synthetic corks avialable now.
Some are awful - anywhere. Some are not bad. IMO for tenons, natural cork still surpasses all of them.
What is really substandard in these environments is the adhesive used for self-adhesive backing - for both tenons and keys.
Almost every tenon cork I replace is because self-adhesive backing - typically installed by the manufacturer - has failed.
On keywork, self-adhesive backing is a disaster. Over these very small areas it always retains enough "sliminess" to be at risk of peeling or sliding off the key. It certainly cannot be regarded as secure. By contrast, a decent contact adhesive, appropriately used, can be trusted for a decade if not several.
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Author: shmuelyosef
Date: 2017-06-27 01:02
Gordon
Most of the tenon corks I replace were either damaged during sanding or use, or from adhesive failure; most of the adhesive failure I've seen comes from corks that are fitted too tight, causing the user to continually apply grease which packs into (and thru) the cork, eventually displacing the adhesive through a hydrophobicity.
I have had good luck with the higher quality self-adhesives (on teflon and the Valentino cork) by degreasing the substrate well and then applying contact cement to the one side.
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