 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2017-06-02 21:27
I'm on Legere European for the duration, it seems. I've currently got 4 in rotation, that play very similarly, and a 5th I had to put aside- more on that in a moment.
3 of the 4 good ones I have avoided any adjustments. My #3 I started ATG adjusting early on- now that one seems to want frequent tweaks though I'm trying to leave it alone. My experience so far is that these reeds start nice the first day, then go through several poorer days, and settle down after 3-4 days. Then they're good for a very long time, I'm several months in on my #1 and it is still my best one. Wish I had left #2 and #3 alone while they were breaking in.
Trimming Legeres has always been dicey. They are much harder to cut than cane, takes a lot more pressure. I've found I must press down with a screwdriver directly on the blade to make it snap through and cut, just turning the side knob won't do it (on the trimmers I've used, of varying quality and price). And after doing this a few times, the blade gets duller and may not even cut cane well. Can any of these trimmers be sharpened?
Anyway, back to my European #2. A couple of days in, I tried to transfer mouthpiece between 2 clarinets with reed in place, and squeezed too hard trying to keep ligature from turning. These reeds are extra wide and therefore vulnerable, and #2 got a crack in it. I still don't know how much effect the crack might cause, but at least I've viewed #2 as damaged. So I was more inclined to ATG it- overdid it, and then tried to trim it. Standard clarinet trimmers are not wide enough. I tried a cheapo alto trimmer I happen to have- not really the right shape. At this point the reed tip is really messed up and is not playable.
But if I got the right trimmer I could experiment on fixing #2 and maybe know what to do in a future situation with a better reed.
SO--- what is a good trimmer for a Legere European reed? Correct shape and up to the task of cutting plastic with finesse. Not that trimming seems a good idea in any case.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2017-06-02 21:46
fskelley wrote:
> SO--- what is a good trimmer for a Legere European reed?
>
I think if you go by what's said on the Légère website, the answer is that there isn't one. They started out as soprano sax reeds, as I understand the history. Maybe if you find a heavy duty soprano sax clipper, it might work.
I guess with not much to lose, you could try hand trimming the tip with a sharp scissor, then smoothing the profile as needed with light abrasive.
Karl
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2017-06-02 23:01
For any reed trimming method and any type of reed- I've found I'm always wanting to remove less than the method wants to allow. Even with a crisp cane reed and good quality sharp trimmer with a regulator, I'm trying to position it to remove the barest minimum I can where it actually does something. That's because no matter how small the cut I always find an effect on how the reed plays- placebo or not I don't care, I got a change, LOL. My thinking is that if removing X gets the job done, in all likelihood removing X/2 would do it as well, and leave you more to work with next time around (longer reed life). And if X/2 works, why not X/4? Trouble is, at some point either nothing happens (xyzzx) or you just bend over the very tip and don't cut it.
So I will add to my requirement for a good European trimmer that the regulator can precisely position the reed for a vanishingly small shaving, and the blade can still cleanly remove it and leave the tip pristine. Sounds like some kind of laser laboratory mad scientist $$$$$ gear. It'll never happen.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2017-06-02 23:07
fskelley wrote:
> My thinking is that if removing X gets the
> job done, in all likelihood removing X/2 would do it as well,
> and leave you more to work with next time around (longer reed
> life). And if X/2 works, why not X/4?
Sounds like an illustration of Zeno's paradox.
Karl
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2017-06-03 02:51
A man contemplates swimming in a vat of acid against everyone's warning and actions to avoid ever doing this, not reasoning why so many warn against it and so few do it.
Instead, rather than ask, "why am I doing this," he seeks out the finest protective suit (reed trimmer).
If you cannot find a European Legere that suits you strength given its so precise and narrow gradations, if you cannot move the reed over so slightly to the left or right to account for assymetries that may exist in your mouthpiece, if you cannot move it up or down ever so little to adjust for strength because Legeres .25 gradations are to broad for you, then you are too fussy to play clarinet.
I've never taken this tone with anyone here, seeking to provide support for all questions, but Stan, I've seen your posts over the years and the rediculous complaints you've put forth.
Remember one on too much saliva?
My suggestion: accept the highly imperfect instrument that is clarinet, from reed issues to intonation, or play and instrument like piano where your forced to accept that the limitations lie with the player.
As to your question, the best "trimmer" for a legere reed is an etude book, a metronome, and a relentless student.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2017-06-03 17:15
To respond to your question from a different perspective than I did in my other post, I wonder whether finding a trimmer would be useful even if you succeed. Légère reeds cost so much more than cane reeds do. When you make adjustments to a cane reed, you do it with the understanding that you may end up trashing it. When you screw up a piece of cane, it's $2 and whatever time you've wasted down the drain and you go on to another one. My sense is that trying to make major changes in a Légère reed has a very low chance of success - the odds are far higher that you'll make the reed unplayable or, at the least, worse than it was at the start. And each failure carries ten times the price.
People ruin tons of cane reeds in the process of trying to learn how to adjust them (and even after that the process isn't 100% reliable). The cost of that kind of learning curve would probably turn out to be astronomical when the reeds cost $25-$30 each.
I have succeeded in making Légères that are slightly stuffy-feeling (because they're a little too hard) more responsive by lightly sanding the back (flat) side. I haven't found that "balancing" Légère reeds is necessary - the manufactured plastic is far less subject to inconsistent material characteristics (e.g. density) than cane is. So in my experience with them working on selective areas of the vamp as you do with cane seems unnecessary. Most are very playable with no adjustment at all, and if you sand a too hard reed a few careful strokes at a time, it doesn't need to reach the point where you'd need to think about reversing the effect with a trimmer.
Karl
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2017-06-03 17:31
I think, Dave, that your response is unnecessarily harsh. Still, there is something to the view that players who opt for reeds made of manufactured materials like Légère's plastic may need to accept playing the reed they get rather than trying to remanufacture it to their own preference as many of us tend to do with cane. Mouthpieces optimized for Légère reeds have become a popular topic because it's easier to redesign one mouthpiece model than it is to try to adjust these reeds consistently to the mouthpieces we've always used. Players for whom Légères consistently *almost* play well might be better off experimenting with mouthpieces than with reed adjustment techniques. At least, once you've found the right mouthpiece to go with the Légères you want to use, it's a consistent, permanent fix.
Karl
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2017-06-03 17:53
Thanks, Karl, for your observations.
I wonder if the bottom line is since we can't effectively trim synthetic reeds, we are glad we don't really want to. In this case perhaps the grapes really are sour, LOL.
I do hope that anyone who ever improves or salvages a Legere by trimming will post that experience here- today or 5 yr from now. Especially if with a simple and effective method.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2017-06-03 18:18
fskelley wrote:
> I wonder if the bottom line is since we can't effectively trim
> synthetic reeds, we are glad we don't really want to. In this
> case perhaps the grapes really are sour, LOL.
You do need to be careful about generalization - I'm not sure the difficulty of making adjustments applies to all synthetic reeds and almost certainly not to any that are developed in the future. I don't like Forestone reeds, but I suspect that their composition is more alterable than Légère's. I haven't tried clipping them, but I'll bet it's easier than clipping Légères. I really don't like Fibracell clarinet reeds (their sax reeds are more useable), but I think I have clipped them successfully with a standard clipper (still sounded awful).
Maybe Légère will respond at some point to players' wish for more control and actually modify the material to be more easily workable. It would be an especially important step if such a change actually brought the sound quality even closer to that of good cane than it already is. Although, on the other hand, as long as messing up a synthetic remains so costly a mistake, it will still be safer to just find one that works and rely on its consistency rather than its workability.
Karl
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2017-06-03 18:47
I have found that Legere reeds can be trimmed successfully using a Cordier trimmer that came with a clarinet that I bought on EBay some years ago. The only reason I had to trim a Legere reed was that it had softened with use to the point where I considered discarding it. The attempt at trimming was experimental, as if it didn't work I had really lost nothing. The reed had earned its keep by then. Although harder than cane the reed trimmed perfectly and I got quite a bit more life from it. The amount trimmed was miniscule.
Since than I've trimmed other Legeres with the same results. I tried trimming a Forestone with less success. I had already decided that I didn't care much for the Forestone reed, so it was no great loss. The material seems to be much harder than that of Legeres, and is more brittle. It didn't trim cleanly, leaving the corners a bit ragged. Plasticover reeds trim with no trouble whatsoever.
Tony F.
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