 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: wkleung
Date: 2017-02-24 19:11
I have been playing massively flat on my 1960's Noblet 40 - A435-437 on a stock 66mm barrel. Today the ambient temperature was 13C (no heating in the apartment) and even with a pair of newly-acquired 64mm barrels, I barely hit A439-440 after warming up.
I am blowing with sufficient support (I play German-style reeds on oboe) and I have raised my tongue from my usual position for oboe or bassoon. My pitch doesn't go much even if I bite. Is there anything else that can be wrong about my playing that contributes to my low pitch? My Noblet does have many scratches and even pits on the inside of the bore, around the tone holes for the throat notes. Could those flatten the pitch that much?
Sincerely,
Wai Kit Leung
A double reed teacher who is new to the clarinet
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2017-02-24 19:24
Have you had somebody else play your clarinet? It would be interesting and instructive to see if they experience the same problems.
Tony F.
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Author: wkleung
Date: 2017-02-24 19:41
Dear Tony F.
Yes I did get a clarinettist try my Noblet. She used a Vandoren M30 on my stock barrel and was tuned to around A437-438, similar to my pitch, perhaps a hair higher. Her main instrument is a modern Buffet R-13.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2017-02-24 20:11
I don't know the answer but someone here might: are Noblets supplied standard with 66 mm barrels, or are their standard barrels shorter? We've read here that Yamaha, for example, is designed with considerably shorter barrels so that standard R-13-style 66 mm barrels won't work. What about Noblets?
Karl
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2017-02-24 22:35
I have a Noblet D/N, approximately the same age as yours. SN 16640. It has a 64mm barrel.
I don't know if it matters, but as best as I can determine without a proper bore gauge, my R-13 c.1992 has a bore that is a little smaller. Noblet~14.9mm/0.589" vs. Buffet~14.88mm/0.587". If the new barrels are made for Buffet it might make a difference.
The logo is oval, containing "Noblet Paris", with a "D" in a little lyre above the oval, and an intertwined D and N below. The top joint also says "France". The trill keys all have their own posts. Nickel keys. I can't say how it plays in tune, because I need to get pads for it.
- Matthew Simington
Post Edited (2017-02-24 22:51)
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Author: RKing
Date: 2017-02-26 01:24
I have a Buffet R-13 and it is sharp as expected with the standard 66mm barrel and a "regular" (A-442) Vandoren M-15 mouthpiece. So with the standard Buffet barrel, I use a "13 series" M-15 to be in tune.
Then I changed to a 66mm (again, same length) Chadash barrel and I had to go back to the regular A-442 M-15 mouthpiece to be in tune. Same reed, same everything else, etc.
I think there is more to it than barrel length, but don't know what it is.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2017-02-26 01:40
RKing wrote:
> I think there is more to it than barrel length, but don't know
> what it is.
>
It's the volume of the air column. Given the same bore dimensions, a longer barrel has a larger internal volume than a shorter one and produces a lower pitch. But given two barrels of the same length but different bores, the one with more internal volume will play lower.
I don't know how the bore volumes compare between standard Buffet barrels, Moennig-Buffet barrels and Chadash-Buffet barrels, but the internal tapers are not, AFAIK, the same, so it's very possible the overall internal volume of each is different and, hence, the pitch of each may be different with the same 66mm length.
Karl
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Author: RKing
Date: 2017-02-26 04:02
Thanks, that makes sense.
I guess we might also suggest that the OP's problems with pitch could be helped if he can find a barrel with less internal volume. Since he is also having trouble with a 64mm barrel, maybe the bore is just too big.
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2017-02-26 05:52
I meant to suggest that the new barrels may be too narrow (or be designed for clarinets with a narrower bore.)
I don't know why this would make things flat. I also don't know what the manufacturer tollerances are on the bores, a couple thousandths of an inch isn't much in wood. That's only 0.001" on each side of the tube, but propotionally it would make a larger difference in the overall volume.
Like Karl said, if they are tapered, and especially if designed for a polycyndrilical bore, there could be a lot more variation. My Moenning barrel bore is obviously smaller than my Buffet top joint bore where they meet. It's plain just by looking at it. In that case, it might be that the lower end of the new barrels are very much too narrow. Also the polycyndrilical bore of the Buffet is even smaller toward the center of the top joint, so the overall difference in the clarinet bores is more than my measurement makes it seem. The Noblet might have a lot more volume going down the horn.
- Matthew Simington
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Author: wkleung
Date: 2017-02-26 13:11
Dear all,
Thank you for your wonderful responses and suggestions. I am sorry I confused some of you - the newly acquired 64mm barrels did help with raising pitch, but on a cold day (13C/55F with no heating), I was still having trouble getting up to 440 on the new barrels (Backun and Accubore B64D). On that cold day, when I tried my original barrel, I was closer to 430 than to 440 ...
Sincerely,
Wai Kit Leung
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