 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-02-02 06:31
What's the difference between the the Masters and non-Masters version of this ligature product, independent of the plating you buy it with?
(Yes, one is designed for the Master's mouthpiece, but why?)
The M/O Lite ligature only comes in a non-Masters variety correct?
Can the Masters version of the M/O ligature be used with success on other mouthpieces, Vandoren or otherwise?
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Author: tylerleecutts
Date: 2015-02-02 07:44
The Masters ligature is slimmer than the non-Masters, due to the differences in girth and shape of the Masters mouthpiece compared with the traditional blank design.
Therefore, it would be logical to say that the Masters ligature would not fit on a standard mouthpiece because it would likely be too narrow to fit on the body of the mouthpiece.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-02-02 08:53
Well, that's not true. The Masters (M/O) ligature fits ANY mouthpiece because it is a simple one screw, pouch design (self adjusting to any mouthpiece). I know because I use it on every mouthpiece in the drawer.
I am not familiar with the NON Masters M/O. I'd assume it is slightly larger in diameter and may not be ideal for the Masters mouthpiece (but I'd never even heard of it before.....I'd like to see one before saying for sure).
............Paul Aviles
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-02-02 15:47
I see the reference on the Vandoren website. They do not specifically say anything about it being different than the Masters (the Masters M/O DOES have the same tightening mechanism as the Optimum already), but being slightly larger in diameter would make sense. There is no reference to a non-Masters M/O on the Woodwind Brasswind site. The Light Version mentioned at the bottom of the "Data Sheet" would be "Luyben version" of the ligature.......might be interesting.
But I've had no problem using the Masters M/O on anything I throw at it. And it is a VERY good all around ligature. It gets a great response, good sound and it is about the most convenient ligature to use of any I have ever tried. So if they market one for "non Masters" mouthpieces specifically it will just garner the attention that it deserves.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: tylerleecutts
Date: 2015-02-02 20:06
They're different ligatures, different model number.
http://www.wwbw.com/Vandoren-M-O-Bb-Clarinet-Ligature-and-Cap-for-Masters-Mouthpiece-J10206-i3741018.wwbw
http://www.wwbw.com/Vandoren-M-O-Series-Clarinet-Ligature-H72526-i1839143.wwbw
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-02-02 20:21
Thank you for finding the Woowind Brasswind reference material.
Within it, the only printed "difference" is that one is available for ALL the sizes of clarinets while the other is not.
I think that's it.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2015-02-02 20:56
There are two types of MO ligatures. One is for all mouthpieces and the other is purely for the Master Series mouthpieces.
Hope that sorts out the confusion.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-02-02 22:45
Correct Peter.
I just got off the phone with Vanoren in New York.
If I may be a tad more pedantic, the "run of the mill" M/O ligatures, and their 4 plating options, a well as the M/O Lite, are for any mouthpiece, barring the Vandoren Masters mouthpieces.
The Masters version of the M/O ligature, also available in the same four platings as the non-Masters version of the M/O, and as marked with the Master product logo "M" on them, is designed for the Masters mouthpieces, or perhaps other mouthpieces that have the Master's "more than usual" reduction in circumference as one examines the mouthpiece from its cork to the window.
Can you get each ligature to work on mouthpieces that they are expressly contraindicated for use with it? Maybe. But given the single screw design, Vandoren wanted the 2 pillars, perpendicular to the screw, to come together and separate with tightening and loosening of the screw, in such a way that the pillars weren't closer or farther away from one another as the user examined these pillars in the direction of mouthpiece tip to cork, or vice versa.
One can only assume that the circumference of the upper band on a Masters version of this ligature, as compared to the bottom band, is even greater a differential than the difference in these two bands on the non-Masters version of the ligature.
Again, as in other posts, flexible ligatures of any manufacturer are always okay on the Masters mouthpiece product line, and as indicated prior, I once accidently put an inverted Bonade on a Masters mouthpiece. Until I corrected this, all space, time, and matter was sucked into a hole of infinite density, the size of a pin head.
Actually, I only noticed this when putting away my clarinet. And guess what, everything was just fine with play, mouthpiece, and ligature thereafter.
Post Edited (2015-02-02 22:47)
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Author: AAAClarinet
Date: 2015-02-03 00:07
Does the Spriggs F.R. lig fit on the Masters mouthpieces.
Thanks
AAAClarinet
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-02-03 00:39
AAAClarinet:
Of course trying is best. Short of that, I think the wisest thing to do is examine why Vandoren made an M/O ligature exclusively for the Masters line of mouthpieces, and the validity of Vandoren's claims.
My guess is that the "company line" over at 56 Rue Lepic is that the M/O ligature for Masters mouthpieces is optimized for use with Masters mouthpieces, more than Vandoren is claiming that dire consequences are to follow if one uses this ligature on a non Masters mouthpiece, or if a standard M.O. ligature, or even a non-Vandoren metal ligature (I'll include Spring's Floating Rail in that for the sake of discussion) is used on a Masters mouthpiece; flexible ligatures like those of leather and string are already recognized by Vandoren as fine with the Masters mouthpiece collection.
Most ligatures, you'll have to tell me how much so on the Springs Floating Rail, recognize the conical nature of a mouthpiece either because they're fabric in origin, or the bands that surround the mouthpiece are shorter closer to the tip, or enough play is built into the two screw models that the top screw is simply tightened more than the bottom one to allow for the mouthpiece's conical shape.
Perhaps in single tightening mechanisms like the Springs, the rails connected to the screwing mechanism wouldn't be perfectly parallel while holding a reed, but more than manage to keep it stable (if not optimal) just the same.
Let's agree that this is an academic argument as nobody yet may have reported results from such testing, and of what I think far more importance is that you play the mouthpiece you like, and then find the best ligature for it, not vice versa.
I wonder if a very well made and pretty inexpensive Rovner ligature wouldn't make all aspects of this discussion moot, much that it's good to understand manufacturer's product lines and intentions.
Post Edited (2015-02-03 00:44)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-02-03 04:48
Yes, the Spriggs works just fine on the Masters mouthpiece.
I don't have any problem with GOOD inexpensive ligatures. One of my favorites is the Rovner Light (a very good, all around ligature at a decent price). Of course for the same price you could get a Martin Freres which is configured just like the BG Revolutions but the Freres is actually made of real leather.
What makes the Masters Mouthpiece a bit odd to fit is the strange taper to its outside diameter. The Vandoren Optimum fails pretty spectacularly to work on the Masters mouthpiece (as do most standard metal ligatures).
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2015-02-03 15:10
>> but the Freres is actually made of real leather. <<
So another reason not to buy it.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-02-03 16:48
The leather thing is one of those "this ligature sounds better than another" things. It started for me when a colleague made a big deal about her original, leather Rovner that she would never part with because it played better than the current ones.
As an experiment more than a leap of faith, I decided to invest in one of Mike Lomax's Kangaroo leather ligatures. This is just a basic pouch design that is no different in construction from the Rovner Dark. Much to my surprise the Lomax plays more like the soft ligatures with a metal insert or even a metal ligature. The sound is much more robust and responsive.
Fast forward to my purchase of the Martin Freres barrel. With the barrel I also got a Martin Freres ligature. I was blown away by the response and the solid sound that I can get from it (again, in comparison with other ligatures that are LESS responsive and more covered in sound).
I don't see any reason why a better ligature would be less desirable.
...............Paul Aviles
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