 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Exiawolf
Date: 2015-01-08 09:38
Recently I've been trying 3/12 on my M13 Lyre opposed to 4's. The sound is easier to make and I have to put in much less effort to create a controlled sound, however playing on them gives a pop that I can hear (Almost like a shrill or thin sounding reed). I read and have heard that sometimes this "shrillness" is not in fact shrillness, but just a lively sound to the audience. How do you tell the difference between a thin and dead sounding reed compared to a well responding soft reed that just sounds lively?
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2015-01-08 11:35
What you hear is not what the listener hears. It's very difficult to judge your own sound accurately. Try recording yourself and see what you think of the result.
Tony F.
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-01-08 18:03
"How do you tell the difference between a thin and dead sounding reed compared to a well responding soft reed that just sounds lively?"
It's a tricky question Quniton where our experience and subjectivity can, short of diagnostic equipment that objectively quantifies the nature of our sound, including its harmonics, play a role in what we find pleasant and unpleasant about our clarinet's output.
Tony's certainly on the right track about having others [in the know] rate your sound, that if I may expand upon, can allow us to better commit to our knowledge of what we hear ourselves (sorta) sound like when experienced listeners rate us positively, or recording devices capture us.
As it regards the reported "thinning" of your sound as you play weaker reeds, please be reminded of the importance to forming an embouchure that surrounds all sides of the mouthpiece with pressure, not just pressure from above and below. Too often, I feel, players fail to incorporate and develop their cheek muscles into play, so as to snug the mouthpiece from the sides, in addition to top and bottom.
Do you play double lip? If not, can you do it for short periods? Is so, does your sound improve when you do so?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZUOfN-wQEY
If so, try to incorporate into your single lip embouchure the expanded upper palate you had while playing double lip. One way to effect this in single lip play is, I feel, to snug the mouthpiece from the sides, as described. Nobody's looking for you to crush the mouthpiece with your grip, but rather, to apply steady, even and controlled pressure to all of the mouthpiece (i.e. "snug") from all sides.
While I find this product pricey, I do endorse what it does to strengthen the muscles in question here.
https://www.thewind-o.com/
Also, listen to players whose sound you like. Seek to try to sound like them.
Perhaps my favorite, who also plays the M13 Lyre:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMMxi5jvgQI
(In fairness to Paul Aviles thoughful commentary though, WE make the sound, not the mouthpiece)
Perhaps my favorite sound of all (yours can be someone else) is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9nTKA3meRc Mr. Manasse's
(Currently playing a Vandoren M30D I believe)
Perhaps a someless thinner sound, although I love his artistry, and others adore him all around is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SEatuC1vt0 Mr. DePeyer's
Watch how Mr. Hara snugs that mouthpiece. A recent thread on the bboard showed some of us to be interested in the aforementioned wind-o product simply because Mr. Hara, featured in this video and a generally gizmo adverse player, endorses it.
(Auction sites have cosmetic cheek muscles exercisers likely to accomplish the same thing, (as will clarinet practice) from the informercials of yester-year, for $1.00 with shipping.)
And finally, practice long tones the way, and for the reasons this guy tells you to do so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHZQKTwJQtQ&noredirect=1
Good luck, and consider Mark Nuccio's thoughts on reed strength, which advocates use of the weakest strength reeds that don't otherwise interfere with your artistry.
To the extent that I've focused more on how to be less shrill, than identifying when it occurs, as you requested, I do apologize for.
Post Edited (2015-01-08 18:15)
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Author: tylerleecutts
Date: 2015-01-08 19:26
I don't use the M13 Lyre, but I do use the X0 by D'Addario. It's pretty similar, and I like to use the 3.5+ reeds with it. I work my reeds pretty well, smoothing out the vamp with 2000 grit as well as the back, with tip balancing. So, I guess instead of playing on a "3.75" strength, it feels like a 3.6 or a well-balanced 3.5.
Herein lies the question: Are you playing with reeds out of the box, or do you balance them? Maybe going up to a "+" strength and balancing your reeds could get the same blowing resistance as a fresh 3.5 without response or tone issues.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2015-01-08 21:40
Sometimes someone else has to tell you. It's true that we don't hear ourselves as others hear us, to paraphrase Robert Burns and others. And we certainly don't hear ourselves as others hear us who are seated in an auditorium or concert hall some distance away.
But in the long term, you need to base your judgement on what your own ears tell you. The problem isn't just in the difference between what the player and others actually hear. A real issue is the difference between what the player and others expect and want to hear. One person's dull is another's dark. One person's bright is someone else's focused.
By all means, record yourself (on the best equipment you can borrow) and ask people to listen to you from a reasonable distance for the audience's perspective. But you need to be comfortable with what you hear coming from your clarinet. You need to develop a concept of sound to work toward, and that's the hardest part of the process of learning to play an instrument.
I tend to judge correct strength based more on response and intonation than tone quality. You can tell if a reed is truly too soft - it closes during normal play, especially in articulated passages, it tends to go flat (in pitch) as you go higher in the range, legato passages tend toward wildness of sound - some notes shouting and others sounding thin and brittle, and pianissimo is hard to do without losing the sound and response. Some of this is true also of reeds that are too hard, but with the added quality of breathiness and inflexibility of response especially through the throat notes and altissimo range and over both breaks. Reeds that are very hard tend to play sharp and pitch is less flexible. A reed within the right strength range will be easier to control in all of these areas.
Karl
Post Edited (2015-01-09 04:10)
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