 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Clarimeister
Date: 2009-11-28 07:32
Hello all. I know we all have our different preferences, however for you Eefer players out there, which ligatures do you prefer. I own the Vandoren Optimum since I use that for everything and love it (clarinet, bass clarinet, Eb, saxophone). However one of my friends and colleagues, who is a fantastic Eb clarinet player, says she actually recommends the number 2 pressure plate for the Eb optimum as it supposedly allows more flexibility in tone and tuning. Anyone else have any recommendations, ligatures, pressure plates etc?
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2009-11-28 11:23
Some accomplished players just tie the reed on with string.
The clarinet also plays well with a reed held on with a spare thumb.
Outside the imagination, the marketing hype, and embarrassment-avoiding, self-fulfiling belief that one has bought something worth the money, does the ligature really make that much difference?
Has any double blind testing been done on ligatures?
[Writer ducks for cover!]
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Author: William
Date: 2009-11-28 15:55
I doublt that ligatures make a significant difference when it comes to the little effer. However, in my own mind, I prefer my Winslow soprano sax ligature because it seems to add more resonance to the lower register and more "pressence" to the upper. If I didn't have a Winslow, I probably would be using a Vandy Optimum or an old Bb Rovner which worked well on my vintage Selmer HS* mpc. My effer is an older Yamaha 681 with finger friendly keys and a Fobes extension.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-11-28 16:02
Yes Gordon, Ligatures do make a difference. Even if the listener can't hear a difference they can make a big difference in the feel of response, articulation and how the reeds generally feels possibly allowing for more reeds to be playable, at least in some cases. As far a tone goes, I've often done a "blind" test with my students, turning my back and having them play a few. Sometimes I couldn't tell any difference and other times it was obvious to me in my studio. But as I said above, the most important reason for trying different ligatures is in the way it feels. Anything that let's you feel better when you're playing allows you to play better, even if it's in the players imagination.
Clariimiester, the only way you can tell if something feels or sounds better for you is to try it. Just because someone else, no matter how "great" they may be uses something, ligature, MP, reed, clarinet, bell or barrel it doesn't mean it will be the right one for you. If that were the case everyone would be using the same equipment. What a boring clarinet world that would make. Try it! ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2009-11-30 10:48
"...I've often done a "blind" test .."
It really has to be DOUBLE-blind to have any relevance.
Psychology 101.
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Author: salzo
Date: 2009-11-30 14:39
I use a Vandoren "masters"-I think that is what it is called. it is the inverted metal model vandoren makes.
And as far as ligs making a difference? It depends on the standards of the player. Most players would be content with anything holding their reed on the mouthpiece. Better players want the best for themselves, and will notice a difference in ligatures.
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Author: reedwizard
Date: 2009-11-30 15:09
A double blind test is really not relevant here, we are not testing pharmaceuticals. A blind test is sufficient, the listener, in this case Ed would have no idea in what order the ligatures were being tested. It would not matter whether the listner were to know what ligatures were tested in advance, as long as the order was not known. In fact the testee could opt not to change the ligature at least once for that matter to introduce a control.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2009-12-01 12:48
I'm assuming that Ed did a test where Ed, the listen, was "blind", but that the player was not, and was therefore totally susceptible to being influenced by what he saw, hence in how he played.
Double blind is totally necessary for valid results.
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Author: reedwizard
Date: 2009-12-01 16:49
I would also assume that the testee wants to find the ligature that best suits their sound so that they will play all equally well so that the "blind" listener can help them to make this determination as a skilled listener can offer much more insight than the person trying the ligatures. So in this respect a double blind test is unnecessary.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-12-02 02:24
Blind, Shmind, whats the difference. The point is that many times I could hear the difference between some ligatures and others. Certainly the student, or myself, can feel a differences when playing them, it's no big deal. If a student brings in a new ligature, or I suggest trying some I stress the importance of how it feels and response as much as the tone. It's not like trying mouthpieces where the difference can be hugh, this is more subtle with a ligature but there often is a difference in the sound as well as the feel.
If you're interested I have an article on my website listed, Choosing Ligs and MPs, you should read it you might find it interesting. It's in the clarinet article section.
ESP
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Author: Clarimeister
Date: 2009-12-02 06:09
Well I thank all of you for your responses. I was given an extra Plate No. 2 for the Optimum and I love it. Easier to control pitch and it kinda mellows out the tone just a tad so its not too harsh (although it IS an Eb clarinet) the tuning flexibility is the biggest thing for me. So this helped alot.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2009-12-03 03:45
Reedwizzard wrote, "I would also assume that the testee wants to find the ligature that best suits their sound so that they will play all equally well so that the "blind" listener "
And that is the very reason why the player should be "blind" - to give fair comparison.
Come on, this is one case where it is really easy to do some reasonably robust double blind testing. Methinks that those who resist it are afraid of the truths that they may might find. Indeed, they may even look silly! Oh no!
Better to live a "real" world of beliefs and imaginings, than to seek that other "real" world of truth?
Its a case of
1.
Possibly be an idiot....
or one of the following:
2.
Either demonstrate to myself that I am an idiot, and modify my life accordingly, or demonstrate to myself that I am not an idiot.
I'd prefer 2. Double blind testing does that. If I had a good range of ligatures and a group of able players and listeners, then I would certainly do that.
But I guess we all have different philosophies on life. 
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Author: BobD
Date: 2009-12-03 11:13
"Double blind is totally necessary for valid results"
......but won't necessarily yield valid results. It's sort of like the old statistical quip that intercourse is necessary for procreation but won't necessarily result in procreation. And, besides, blinding the subject will affect his hearing and touch sensitivity.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Nessie1
Date: 2009-12-03 16:38
I'm not sure whether blind testing is really feasible - as others have stated, being blindfolded would affect other aspects of one's experience and, if one is not going to be blindfolded there are so many variations in ligatures in terms of shape, design, material etc that a player with a basic knowledge of the range would be able to tell quite a few of them apart at sight and, therefore, possibly be influenced by his or her preconceptions.
On the other hand (forgive me if I've mentioned this on the board before) I do remember a short-lived clarinet magazine in the UK doing a blind test on reeds - several experienced/well known clarinettists were sent a selection of reeds from which identifying marks had been removed. Interestingly, one or two of the testers did correctly identify their usual brand and strength! Some were also surprised at what they liked and didn't.
Vanessa.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-12-04 02:59
Hey everyone, we're talking about a ligature here not a mouthpiece or an instrument. There's players that don't even think they make a difference, I do. This isn't brain surgery. ESP
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
Post Edited (2009-12-04 20:59)
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Author: Chris2787
Date: 2013-01-04 11:18
Fact of the matter... ligatures make a huge difference!
I use a BG Silver Plated Ligature and I notice a difference from the BG Super Revelation Ligature which is cloth based. It's science really. Cloth vs. Metal, difference in reed vibration.
Chris L.
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Author: Elifix
Date: 2013-01-04 13:06
I use a Rover ligature or those brands that are leather bound rather than metals one. Always feel that metals are a tad brighter (maybe because their are very shiny? I don't know) :/
There is a difference I think. Can be as much or as little like how one experiences in MPs testing I guess.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2013-01-04 21:02
There are some great ligatures on the auction site for about $5 which are quite like the Revelation ligatures.
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Author: William
Date: 2013-01-04 21:32
Re my posting of 2009, the only ligature I've ever tried that makes a remarkable difference in the sound were the old Winslow ligatures. I don't like them for my A & Bb clarinets, but love it on my bass and my Eb. I still use them on my alto and tenor sax as well. Too bad they are no longer being made but they do appear on the action site every once in a while.
If I did not have a Winslow, I would probably use a Vandy Optimum with the parallel rail insert like I use with my soprano clarinets, Chicago Kaspar mpc.
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Author: EBC
Date: 2013-01-06 18:50
I'm partial to my leather Vandoren optimum. It works.
Eric
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