 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-08-15 23:33
Is there such a thing on the market as a German-style bass clarinet crook for a French bass clarinet (eg. Buffet Prestige) and has anyone made one? Selmer offer a bass crook with a tighter bend than the standard one, but it may be possible to make one with an even tighter bend than that based on the shape of the crooks made for German basses.
The German crooks often have a much tighter bend in them at the tenon end so the downward part of the crook will be much tighter into the back of the instrument and also the mouthpiece socket will probably end up lower down so the whole instrument can be raised off the ground more (which will be ideal for playing low C basses in cramped conditions or on low chairs).
http://uebel-klarinetten.de/fauebel/klarinetten/bass-klarinetten/bass-klarinette-740/
It will probably mean the upper speaker vent and crook key is relocated off to one side (probably the same side as the throat G# key) due to the tight bend as that may not allow enough room for the usual underslung crook key to fit or operate correctly.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2011-08-15 23:42)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2011-08-16 01:05
Chris, the Kohlert bass clarinets marked "Winnenden" (ca. 1949-1960s), which are Boehm-system instruments, have just such a crook, but lacking an upper octave vent since it is on the top of an elongated upper body on those instruments. German (Oehler) system bass clarinets, of which I have one courtesy of Ben (an earlier F. Arthur Uebel) use a much smaller bore diameter than Boehm-system basses so the necks are highly incompatible.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-08-16 15:18
Charles Bay makes BC necks in the shape you're looking for. See p. 8 of his catalog, http://www.charlesbaywoodwinds.com/downloads/CharlesBayCatalog.pdf. No prices are given there, but even several years ago, they were not cheap.
The wonderful BC specialist Josef Horak showed me his no-cost solution, which I suggest you try first:
Sit forward in your chair, with your left foot forward and your right foot back and turned to the right. Tuck the floor peg in front of the heel of your right shoe, or between your shoe and the right front chair leg. This will bring the angle of the mouthpiece and reed close to the standard soprano clarinet angle. You'll need to twist the mouthpiece slightly to the left in the socket to get the reed level. It helps to use a neck strap, too, since the instrument will be tilted forward.
On the other hand, saxophones are perfectly playable with the mouthpiece perfectly level, and professional BC players adjust without difficulty. I'm sure Ed P. will have more to say.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-08-16 17:15
I think that may present a problem with intonation and create problems with coordinating the double register keys, which have to work perfectly. As far as using a neck, or crock as you call it, I don't care for the Bay design but some players like it. I feel you should approach the bass clarinet as a bass clarinet, not a clarinet and not a saxophone. I think one gets a better tone and control when the MP is not at a clarinet angle but somewhere in-between what one would consider a clarinet and a saxophone. Of course everyone is different so what works well for one might not work as well for another. I have an older Selmer so the neck is not as acute an angle as the newer ones so I bend my neck back a bit and angle the bass a little so I can get the MP angled the way I like it. I've always done it that way so I'm used to it. I do like the new necks with a slightly more bent angle but they won't fit on my older model and I've been using mine for 45 years and I love it. ESP
eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-08-16 18:19
I generally hold the clarinet up at around 45° or more while playing, but the problem arises when playing in a confined space such as an orchestra crammed tightly onto a small stage or in a theatre pit and angling a bass clarinet out forwards isn't always possible, plus a lot of the time the chairs put out for players aren't tall enough to play a low C comfortably as the instrument ends up too high even with the spike all the way in so the bell is resting on the floor (and other instruments, instrument and music stand bases, 4-way blocks and leads for stand lights, microphone cables, other player's chairs, etc. are usually in the way to allow the bell to be placed forwards).
If I hold the bass as described in Ken's reply, the mouthpiece angle will point downwards far too much for my liking - the mouthpiece angle on the Buffet Prestige is already angled downwards by a fair amount on them and I do tend to play it with the bell angled slightly forwards as that's the most comfortable playing position for me.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-08-17 13:37
I recommend having the bell angled a bit under you not away from you but that depends on the comfort level. I like the angle better when it is that way rather then the bell pointing away from me. When our chairs were lower years ago or we go on tour i used to use a a cushion, now I carry something to raise the front two legs when I go on tour for when we have low chairs, like in Japan. You can get something that you put under a piece of furniture or make something out of a piece of wood that has a lip on it so the chair leg doesn't slip out. Raising the front gives me enough height to be comfortable. Once I forgot to bring it on tour so I would use several music folders to sit on when the chairs were too low, not as comfortable as a cushion though. ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-08-17 14:06
If only they made crooks where the angle of the mouthpiece can be altered. I prefer the weight of the instrument to fall towards me rather than away from as that frees up the left hand.
I've found on older style basses where the mouthpiece angle is almost parallel with the floor tends to allow the instrument to tip forwards and a sling has to be used to prevent that, but that makes quick changes inconvenient.
The type of crook I wouldn't mind is with a bend immediately from the tenon and the tuning slide running parallel with the back of the top joint, then the bend as near to the mouthpiece socket at around a 30° angle from the floor which will raise the instrument higher off the ground. German basses have longer lower joints as low C issues from the bell vent (all the keys are on the body joints) so they have a fairly low-slung crook to raise the whole instrument up higher.
I've seen some German basses with a far more tightly wrapped crook than the Uebel one in the link I posted earlier, plus others with a more open wrap like French basses.
If I could source the tubing and had the means to make such tight bends, then I'd probably make one for myself.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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