 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Brian
Date: 2002-10-24 07:33
Hi Everyone!
I just saw the movie "Wild Man Blues" which chronicles the overseas tour of Woody Allen and His New Orleans Jazz Band. Mr. Allen played a clarinet with keywork I have never seen before. If anyone else has seen this film and knows what kind of clarinet he plays in it please let us know.
Peace!
Brian
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-10-24 08:41
While I've not seen the film, it has been reported that Allen had a custom-built "Albert"-style instrument made in Paris a few years ago. Unfortunately, I do not positively recall the manufacturer (it's late at night!), but my recollection is that Selmer was the builder. Surely someone will offer a more firm reply.
Regards,
John
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Author: John Kelly - Australia
Date: 2002-10-24 09:36
It's an Albert system and.............I think the Buffet people made one for him gratis!
Search this BB for Woody Allen, you'll find quite a lot of postings.
JK
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Author: beejay
Date: 2002-10-24 10:19
Buffet Crampon made him two Alberts on special order -- not gratis.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-10-24 12:29
Here is the Rampone and Cazzani site which mentions Woody Allen playing one of their clarinets (I believe until 1995, when he had Buffet make him 2 Albert system clarinets).
The site is in Italian, but you can use one of the translation search engines to help you if your Italian is rusty.
http://www.lagodorta.com/paese.htm
As was mentioned before, if you've never seen "Wild Man Blues", where Woody is given a personal tour of the Buffet factory, and falls in love with a metal clarinet in the display case(but is told it's NOT for sale), it's worth watching the movie just for that moment...GBK
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Author: beejay
Date: 2002-10-24 12:57
BTW, is Woody Allen
a. Better than -
b. Worse than -
c. About the same as -
........Acker Bilk?
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Author: Allen Cole
Date: 2002-10-24 14:24
My vote is that Woody Allen is not on par with Acker Bilk, but he makes up for it as a postivie role model for step-parents everywhere.
Another great WMB moment at the Buffet factory: I could've sworn that he asked someone there if they could drill out the bore on one instrument "like a Selmer."
The more bone-chilling question is:
What name does the general public most frequently associate with the clarinet?
a. Benny Goodman
b. Richard Stoltzman
c. Woody Allen
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Author: Vic
Date: 2002-10-24 14:58
I'm not sure why the question is "bone-chilling," but I'd wager that, even though he's been gone for several years, the general public would most frequently associate Benny Goodman with the clarinet. The general public probably is not familiar with Stoltzman at all, unfortunately. And I don't believe that a lot of folks are even aware that Allen plays the clarinet.
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2002-10-24 14:58
In the movie, W. Allen goes to the Buffet factory and asks his clarinet to be modified because it's too resistant.
He fiddles then with an old metal buffet on display which he wants to buy but the instrument is part of the biffet collection and not for sale ...
> What name does the general public most frequently associate with the clarinet?
Benny goodman, no doubt.
-S
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Author: Eileen
Date: 2002-10-24 16:59
I couldn't watch the whole movie because Woody Allen's whiny personality was so grating and the Soon Lee scenes were too nauseating. But the scene at the Buffet factory was great. The Buffet officials were just dripping with thinly-veiled condescension. Next time it's on cable, I'd recommend watching it through the Buffet factory scene.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-10-24 21:47
"...dripping with thinly-veiled condescension..."
What a great phrase!!! A perfect description - Bravo! ...GBK
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Author: Vic
Date: 2002-10-24 21:50
Eileen - good show indeed! I wholeheartedly agree with GBK. I wish I'd said it. Someday I probably will. . . . . Vic
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Author: Brian
Date: 2002-10-24 23:47
To Those Who Saw the Film:
How could you have forgotten the "Spanish Omlette" scene!
Seriously though I agree with GBK...how can I not since he is ALWAYS right!!!...the Buffet factory scene is great.
Thanks to all of you for your input!
Another Woody Allen question...what do you all think of his playing. I have mixed feelings about it. His playing of Dixieland is really great. He seems to have the technique down pretty well. I'm not sure if I particularly care for his sound though. To me it seems sort of weak and thin yet at times projects over his band quite well. Of course it is "his" sound so maybe I am being too judgemental. Please let me hear your opinions.
Peace!
Brian
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-10-25 01:40
Obviously, my choice of Selmer in my early accusation was amiss... Buffet was the one. I would also not at all put it past Allen to make a tongue-in-cheek request of Buffet to "bore it like a Selmer" for comedy effect, even though he might be the only one within fifty meters to "get" the joke.
Regarding my opinion of Allen: I think he's a superb Motion-Picture auteur. However, I do recall one glaring anachronism in *Zelig*.
And although I do believe most Allen fans are aware of his Clarineting, I think the "average" person alive today would more likely associate the Clarinet with neither him nor Goodman, but rather with Mr. Acker Bilk. Bilk was the best-selling Clarinet recording artist (...) of the last fifty years, and I would wager that his "Stranger on the Shore" (he referred to it as "my retirement plan") has sold more records than all versions of the K622 throughout history combined. Like him or not, the public admires him quite thoroughly. And he's not at all a bad jazz player.
Regards,
John
who sharpshoots dictionaries as a hobby
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Author: Allen Cole
Date: 2002-10-25 09:20
I thought that Woody's level of playing (including his improvisation) was pretty pedestrian. Of course, music is not his profession, and it's not the quality of his playing which draws the crowds.
I see two redeeming things in the movie. First, the priceless scene at the Buffet factory. Second the fact that Woody is at some point actually depicted practicing his instrument and saying that he does so every day.
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Author: nzdonald
Date: 2002-10-25 12:06
"...dripping with thinly-veiled condescension..."
i haven't seen the movie but i've seen THIS (where buffet are concerned)
in fact, i think i can even remember one of my old teachers (Ron deKant) commenting on this particular characteristic (when he was trying out clarinets at the factory).
i've always loathed Acker Bilk, but i've got to say that he IS a better clarinet player than Woody Allen, but with half the "style" (the bowler hat and waistcoat are so.... so....). My main reason for loathing him, however, now seems to be "stranger on the shore" and anything else i've ever heard him play was way less cringworthy. I don't know, stranger on the shore doesn't seem that bad now i think about it....
aw shucks, no, it's awful.
donald
(but the guy CAN PLAY)
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Author: beejay
Date: 2002-10-25 12:06
Dripping with thinly-veiled condescension? Hey, those are some of my friends you are talking about -- and one of them is an American! Actually they are very nice guys.
BTW, if Allen had wanted a Selmer, all he had to do was walk out the front door, turn left and walk 100 yards down the sidewalk. The two rivals are almost side by side on the same small street. I'm told they never talk to one another.
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Author: JackOrion
Date: 2002-10-25 18:23
I'm sure that Buffet reamed out the barrels and not the joint bores. The part that I love is when the trombone player asked Woody if it played better and Woody replies no. Another scene that kills me is when he is practicing long tones in the car, his tone is that of a toothless creole guru, but thats what he wants. He is very dedicated to the old school. I think he's a great player, he has been playing the stick for a long time, if you listen to the Sleepers soundtrack its him on clarinet, and that movie was made some 30 years ago?
He plays the old Albert system with two rings. You would figure with his money he'd be playing an improved Selmer.
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Author: beejay
Date: 2002-10-25 18:23
Actually Acker Bilk used to be a pretty hot traditional jazz player in the 50's New Orleans revival in Britain, where he played with a lot of the really good bands. He went all spongy -- ie commercial -- with Stranger on the Shore, and took it from there. His vibrato is not to be emulated, I feel.
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-10-25 21:10
I've never actually heard any Acker Bilk, and from what I've been reading I don't believe I want to......He appears to be approximately to the clarinet world what Kenny G is to the sax world, and many of us saxophonists can't stand Kenny G's playing, for the same reasons mentioned in discussions of Bilk: syrupy sound/vibrato, "formulaic" songs, complete capitulation to the almighty dollar (or pound or euro). I think that part of our hostility (towards either gentleman) is indeed legitimate artistic revulsion, but I'm sure that some of it is plain old jealousy/envy at their success and fortunes.
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-10-26 13:40
"thinly-veiled condescension"....sounds like the attitude of those who think that the only proper clarinet sound is that of "classical" players. Who mandated that vibrato is bad?
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Author: John Kelly - Australia
Date: 2002-10-27 21:20
There are two schools of thought with clarinet it seems:
1.The "pure" vibrato free tone, which seems to coincide with the classical school and...........
2. The "others" who, more or less, use vibrato when and where it pleases their interpretation of the particular music being played.
I belong to school #2 and in particular the jazz scene, where, as most would know, vibrato is a technique used to elicit feeling and emotion in a number/piece.
I have been down this road before and have no need or desire to try and convince others, who don't use vibrato, to take up the practice. I merely state my point.
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Author: Kat
Date: 2002-10-27 23:49
John-
I don't have a problem with clarinet vibrato in classical music per se but with how it's used in certain classical contexts. I think if clarinetists were trained to use vibrato as a flutist or a violinist is, the recordings that irritate the vibrato naysayers would not sound precisely the way they do now.
For example, I really really don't like Stoltzman's Mozart recordings because I think HIS USE of vibrato obfuscates the music. However, Shifrin uses vibrato in his Mozart recordings in a manner which helps express the music. If more clarinetists were trained to USE vibrato like Shifrin does, which is to say, as a means to approaching an expression of which the composer would approve, then I think there'd be less division between the "classical" camp and the "others."
Ultimately, for me, it's not a matter of the existence of vibrato in classical music, but its usage.
Katrina
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Author: John Kelly - Australia
Date: 2002-10-28 02:12
Thanks for the info - I'm a jazz player however I'll track down some recordings of Stoltzman and Shifrin and compare to some jazz players.
You are referring to Richard Stolzman? And as for Shifrin - I don't know of this player - first name please?
Your comments about flute [and particularly violin] are relevant. I think that EVERYONE would agree that if a violinist did NOT use any vibrato, as many [most?] classical players seem to not be inclined, then string sections and string solos would sound [to me] particulary lifeless.
It's a matter of being trained from the outset as you say.
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Author: Kat
Date: 2002-10-28 03:36
Yep, John, I meant Richard Stoltzman. David Shifrin is a great American classical player. He's played in quite a few orchestras, and has been teaching at Yale the last 10 or 15 years. He also leads the Chamber Music Society of Lincoln Center (someone please correct me if I've got the name wrong...I'm going from memory here...). I really love Shifrin's Mozart recordings, and while he doesn't use vibrato quite the way a jazz player would or even the way a classical violinist would, it IS present, and very tasteful, IMHO.
As a caution: Stoltzman DOES play some "jazz" which, in my opinion, is closer to much "new age" music. However, he did win a Grammy (was it 20 years ago?) for his recording of the Brahms sonatas. Again, I prefer Shifrin's recordings of those pieces too. I must say, though, that I do prefer Stoltzman's Brahms recordings to his own Mozart recordings too! And his "jazz" recordings are all right...but they're not JAZZ...
If you haven't heard the Robert Marcellus recording of the Mozart, it's a good non-vibrato recording to use for comparative purposes. I think that Marcellus was a great player, and that his Mozart recording is one of the top recordings of the piece. I may have to drag out the Shifrin and Marcellus recordings and compare them side-by-side, though, since it has been a while since I've heard either!
Katrina
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2002-10-28 05:01
I have watched Woody's "tour" everytime it comes on cable, which I think now is about 3 times. I'm not sure what I think of his clarinet playing, but he definitely makes up for anything lacking there with his enthusiasm. The part that really made me laugh was at the end when his mother says she wanted him to be a pharmacist.
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