 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: b and l
Date: 2002-07-06 04:06
Hi, we are two clarinetists at orchestra camp and we were wondering if you really can learn how to flutter tongue if your genes don't allow you to roll your Rs. Any suggestions?
thanks!
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Author: LaLa
Date: 2002-07-06 14:43
You can try growling in the back of your throat to achieve the same or similar effect
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-07-06 17:49
I don't understand... your *genes* don't *allow* you to roll your Rs? Could you explain that? Flutter tougueing doesn't mean you have to have the ability to roll your Rs as in speech pronunciation. You can flutter tongue without making any sound at all. Sorta like a flag flapping in high wind. I don't know what genes would have to do with that unless you're somehow physically different than 'most people' - whatever that is. If that's the situation you may have to be content with something else but similar, as LaLa suggests.
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Author: LaLa
Date: 2002-07-06 21:30
Actually, Rolling your R's is hereditary... rolled R's are most commonly used in the spanish language, it's also know as trilling R's to some. Basically if one of your parents can't do it there is a chance you won't be able to either. My mother can't roll her R's but i can because my father can and my sister can't roll her R's because, well my mom can't. It's just your genes.
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Author: ClarinetBoy
Date: 2002-07-06 22:20
I can sympathise with you as I can't roll my "r's", nor flutter tongue... I can do the gurgle thing that LaLa suggested, wether it's effective or not I don't know. It seems to sound pretty similar to flutter tonguing, but I do have trouble 'gurgling' in the higher register. Good Luck!
Ben
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Author: Crys
Date: 2002-07-07 01:38
Well, something you might want to try, could be saying... The prince or russica... But then adding in a d.... The pridince or rudissica. Then just try saying it quickly. I dont kno, it helped me learn how to do roll my R's. Best of luck
Crystal
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Author: LaLa
Date: 2002-07-07 01:50
In the upper register it's much easier for me to growl then flutter tongue, probably because of the way i have to position my tongue to flutter tongue restricts air flow. bleh... Viva el clarinete!
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-07-07 04:55
My experience is pretty much as you describe, LaLa. Upper register growl, lower flutter. Hmmm :|
I had no idea trilling your Rs was a hereditary thing. Had never heard that until this thread. I grew up around (a strong minority of) Spanish speaking folks so I just supposed everybody could roll their Rs when they wanted to. Live and learn.
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Author: Nick Conner
Date: 2002-07-07 19:11
I don't know that this is possible for everybody, but I actually taught myself to roll my r's a couple years ago. I was so frustrated that I couldn't do it and everybody else could, that eventually I began constantly trying to do it. At first I could only my tongue in a controlled manner in about the same way as one rolls one's r's. After doing this for about a month or so constantly, something let go and I began to be able to roll my tongue (i.e. it wasn't a controlled movement anymore). I don't know exactly how it happened but it did. I still can't flutter tongue at the moment, as my tongue is a little to long and interferes a little too much with the reed, but I haven't worked on it a lot, and I think that maybe with some concentrated effort, I might eventually be able to do it. Just my personal experience.
Nick
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2002-07-08 14:39
I don't believe rolling r's has anything to do with genetics unless your tongue or mouth is formed so differently that you can't your tongue in the right position. As far as I know, effectively everyone who grew up in a Spanish-speaking culture can roll their r's.
Along with positioning the tongue, it is necessary to relax it enough to allow the air blowing over it to cause it to flutter. If you hold your tongue stiff, it won't flutter.
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Author: LaLa
Date: 2002-07-08 19:53
Don, it is genetic... whether you believe it or not that doesn't change the fact that it's genetic... just like a hitchiker's thumb, and the color of one's eyes and hair... it is quite genetic... sorry to tell you but spanish speakers have the gene! So get over yourself good bye!
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-07-08 20:31
LaLa wrote:
>
> sorry to tell you but spanish speakers have
> the gene! So get over yourself good bye!
Wait ... if speaking Spanish gives you the "gene" then it's not genetic. Perhaps you're confusing rolling your tongue with rolling your "r"'s. Perhaps you're not. Got any references or did someone just tell you that?
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-07-08 20:40
I just contacted Norvin Richards at the Dept. of Linguistics at MIT. He says there's no correlation between genetics and language sounds. There are people with formant production problems (lisping, etc.) and oral cavity problems (cleft palate, etc). but even these have not been shown to be inherited.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-07-08 21:23
Right now I have an overwhelming sensation that quite a few of us are rolling our eyes.
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Author: LaLa
Date: 2002-07-08 22:40
Language sounds including the rolling of "R's" that's beyond just the SOUNDS of the language... the SOUNDS of a language would consist of intonation used or the difference between a spanish "Tu" and an English "To". As a spanish speaker and spanish major the idea of language and the formation of sounds greatly intrigues me. I've been told by quite a few reliable sources (ie. spanish professors, biology professors) that the actual rolling of R's is an inherited trait. All evidence i've encountered has strengthened and supported this idea. As a matter of fact today one of my elementary kids at the school i work at was having a great time rolling his R's while two of my other kids tried desperately to do so. They had their tongues in the exact same place as my "R rolling child" and they were furiously trying to make the same sound as my other student but to no avail. I also have spanish speaking friends who can only roll there R's in context of a word such as "perro" or "zorro" but to have them sit there and just roll their R's couldn't be done. In the end the only thing i can say that actually pertains to this original post is if all else fails growling in the back of your throat still remains quite efficient in delivering the desired effect.
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Author: David
Date: 2002-07-08 23:01
Watch "The Simpsons" a lot. Speak like Groundskeeper Willie even in casual conversation with (what will probably be a shrinking group of) friends for about 3 weeks strrraight, and ye'll be therrre nae bother at a'
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-07-09 03:13
LaLa wrote:
>
> LI've been told by
> quite a few reliable sources (ie. spanish professors, biology
> professors) that the actual rolling of R's is an inherited
> trait.
Well, Lala, have them quote sources. They're downright wrong.
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