 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: steve
Date: 2002-03-25 16:35
Some reeds play well right out of the box, others can be adjusted, and the rest are unsalvageable. Is the same true for clarinets? Specifically, if one gets a shipment of a few quality horns to try from a reputable dealer (e.g. Internation Music Suppliers) and some of the instruments are stuffy or have other quirks, are these problems correctable or is the instrument hopeless?
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-03-25 19:33
Quality Control ain't what it used to be, Steve :|
If it's a major brand, I assume it's one of the big 4 because you call it a "Quality" horn. It most likely just needs some minor adjustment(s). Some details get overlooked at the factory and no matter how well packed for shipping, they do get bounced around during transport. Can't help that situation. Most dealers go through them when they come in and get them ready for display/sale. But, nobody's perfect. I'm sure if you take it back they'll be happy to check it again.
No, it's not hopless -- just annoying.
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Author: steve
Date: 2002-03-26 12:39
A point of clarification: I meant this question in the generic sense -- I have had only outstanding service from Internation Music Suppliers!! I just curious about how much a horn can be "tweaked". One reads here and hears generally that you should try several horns before buying -- I'm trying to understand how much of that variability of one instrument to another can be adjusted and how much is unalterable.
-steve
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-03-26 12:51
steve does pose a very good question, and one that I too, have often wondered about.
In theory, if 2 instruments are produced identically as to all tolerances; bore, key height, thickness of pads, etc...and then both instruments play decidedly different, is that then to be attributed to the quality / grain / density etc...of the wood itself? Or are there other factors?
Or, is it virtually impossible to build two "identical" clarinets.
Perhaps The Doctor or some of our repair specialists have a theory.
Also curious...GBK
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-03-26 13:59
Considering that clarinet mfg. is not rocket science it is hard for me to believe that any two clarinets could be "produced identically". As just one example, even though bores might be measured identically for the full length of a section tools get dull with use and as they become dull they impart more stress on the underlying "fibers". The result can be two identical sections with differing propensity to crack later.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-03-26 15:38
I'll have to back up to this and agree with the above, though I wasn't trying to take issue with anything. On close examination, you'll find differences in a dozen milk cartons. Certainly there ARE differences in identical musical instruments. This is likely due to all the above factors mentioned - and then some. I've seen brand new instruments (Buffet clarinets) arrive (not my store, an acquaintance's store with incorrectly seated pads, cork(s) not right. I've seen them come back, during warranty, needing all the corks replaced (bad glue) etc.. Nothing really major but things that should not have to be done to new instruments. As for individual playing characteristics... Definitely, there will be *some* differences. There are so many steps to making anything as complicated as a musical instrument, from raw material to final assembly, it simply makes sense there will be variations.
For all that, ninety-nine point something-or-other turn out great with few, if any, real 'lemons'.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-03-26 19:16
Bob comments: "Considering that clarinet mfg. is not rocket science it is hard for me to believe that any two clarinets could be 'produced identically'."
Bob, I remind you that even rockets are not always produced identically.
Regards,
John
former rocket science guy
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-03-26 20:26
Absolutely correct,John. I have visited some of the most hi tech "machine shops" in the U.S. in my day and only one musical instrument manufacurer. Musical instrument manufacture has always been and probably always will involve a lot of technique and artistry that would be hard to duplicate and I'm sure many have heard the old lore of Chinese bell manufacture in which virgins were used during the melting practice...but only once. My personal belief is that there is probably a better chance of making two space vehicles identical...intentionally...than two clarinets. In attempting to institute "the Japanese method" of manufacture in at least one plant with which I was familiar it was extremely frustrating to try to pin down every single variable involved in most processes. The best workmen can have a hard time trying to describe every single thing they do....even when they are being open. And one usually finds that they are doing more "things" than the work process sheet says they are....as they correct problems on their own without thinking to tell "the boss" or the Process Engineer.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-03-26 21:02
Most people are not likely to understand, in this age of thoroughly-engineered products, that the workers actually doing the tasks frequently have better knowledge of what works than anyone else. Really superior operations nowadays will conduct periodic process observations, watching workers actually doing their jobs, followed by a high-level review and incorporation of necessary changes of written procedures to reflect what really happens "out on the line."
I've seen at least one manufacturing process that needed constant adjustment for variations in barometric pressure, and another performance process that had to be adjusted for tides. Just imagine how long it must have taken before anyone deduced why their results were so varied! It is almost impossible to do the same thing twice in a row -- or even out of a row -- exactly the same way. And where the acoustic precision of a Clarinet is concerned, I'm sometimes amazed that things work at all.
Regards,
John
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-03-27 14:49
Right On again John. Besides the "tides" the "periods" of the moon can affect production too. I also am amazed having tried to make some "Native American flutes" myself which turns out to be not the easiest task. Regarding the original inquiry I guess my opinion would be that attempts to tweak any given instrument could be either/or successful or disastrous. There is probably a "point of no return" where one more change results in spare parts.
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Author: willie
Date: 2002-03-28 03:34
Last year I bought an old Leblanc metal EEb contra that had obviously been in storage for years. It was like new, no wear or scratches. Even the case was perfect. The serial #2xx puts it as one of the earliest made. After a quick once over I tried to play it. Nuthin'! Tried some of my other reeds. Nuthin'! Tried another mouthpiece and it spoke! I still needed to adjust a couple keys but it seems the only thing wrong with this horn all these years was the factory mouthpeice. Whoever had it probably didn't have access to another mouthpiece and gave up on it. On other horns a bent key or tiny chip on a tone port can be its gremlin. So don't give up right away. There's always a reason why something doesn't work right. It just may not be very obvious or easily dectectable at first.
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-03-28 10:08
I totally agree with you Willie. It also sort of goes along with one of my favorite quips on "trial and error". We learn more by our errors than our successes.
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