 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2001-11-08 18:12
I asked my teacher for advice on a new clarinet (thru email since i'm not taking lessons right now). He suggested a Buffet "vintage" and gave me a name and phone # of a Buffet dealer in my area. I recognized the name because the man had temporarily filled a spot for Contra Bass with our clarinet choir, and he had also brought several sample Buffets at our clarinet day last year.
I called him and told him what I was interested in and who had given me his phone #. He told me he had had several Buffet "vintages"(which he sold) and my teacher had selected one for himself from his stock and then changed his mind about buying it. he sold the others but held onto this one. He said he was going to be in my area the next day and would bring it to me. after 2 weeks of not hearing from him, I called and he said he had gone to a convention and forgot. He said he would ship it to me. Another week and a half passed and still nothing. I called again and he apologized for the delay and said he would get it out that day. We live in the same state. 4 days later it has arrived.
I have not tried it yet but I have some concerns. First, it arrived in a double case. They dont come this way do they? Second, the bell ring is loose...should I be worried about that? Third, all the trill keys are severely tarnished. Why or how would they become so badly worn on a brand new instrument? If I end up really liking this clarinet should I ask for a discount ...how much? and can I get the keys refinished? how much would it cost.
From the information I have given, does this sound like a new instrument, or a demo instrument. If I like this clarinet, how should I handle the transaction. He's asking $2100 for it. or should i steer clear this.
Please advise
thanks
JL
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Author: MsRoboto
Date: 2001-11-08 18:50
I would personally not buy a new clarinet this way. I think you need to go somewhere where you can play a bunch of them. I would not be pleased to pay $2100.00 for a shop worn instrument. I think that this guy ought to at the very least take care of the issues you mentioned.
I always thought that only A clarinets typically come in a double case. Are you sure that this is not an A clarinet?
My inclination would be to steer clear given what you have said.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-11-08 19:23
Are they keys worn or tarnished or both. If they are merely tarnished, then they can be buffed (this is inexpensive). If the plating is worn, then it would require replating to get the new look (requires paying for a complete overhaul plus the plating cost as the keys have to be removed from the horn and stripped of pads, adhesive, etc).
A new horn that has been stored could be tarnished but it would not be worn. If it is worn, then it is not new.
Loose bell rings are due to humidity changes and don't really indicate anything either way.
Are we talking about a Buffet Vintage (which is a specific, relatively new model)? Or is it a vintage Buffet (i.e. an older, used Buffet)?
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2001-11-08 19:35
it is a Buffet "vintage" ...the new kind made like the old kind. NOT an older Buffet making it vintage in age.
how do I tell the difference between tarnished and worn? I think they may be just tarnished.
with a second look, I also noticed the rings around the barrels are also slightly tarnished and both barrels say 660. I thot they were supposed to be different. wouldnt they have different #'s?
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Author: GBK
Date: 2001-11-08 19:39
I can't render an opinion whether you should keep the horn or not, but a few facts:
The Vintage R-13 does come with a double leather case.
The Vintage R-13 comes with 2 barrels: one conical and one cylindrical
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-11-08 19:45
Tarnish is a discoloration. Silver tarnishes to black or shades of gray. Nickel tarnishes to brownish colors.
Generally you can't tell if keys are worn until the plating is worn through and you can see the substrate (often copper) or the base metal beneath that.
The 660 probably refers to the length, which in this case would be 66.0 mm.
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Author: Susie
Date: 2001-11-08 19:59
Isn't $2100 a little high?
susie
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Author: GBK
Date: 2001-11-08 20:24
Just to let you know, I was speaking to Weiner Music today on another matter, and inquired about their price on a new Vintage R-13. Their selling price is $1950, and they have many in stock. I'm sure other dealers' prices are just as competitive. A few phone calls will probably be a wise idea, and might give you a better selection and possibly a better price, than just buying the one instrument you saw and are seemingly uncertain about...GBK
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Author: Douglas
Date: 2001-11-08 21:07
You seem too unsure to make a decision on your own. Even if this were the greatest clarinet in the world, you probably would have doubts forever from the things you have written. It certainly seems that your teacher needs to take a more active role in the selection process. Have you contacted him to help you in testing the instrument? Simply having him get a phone number for you doesn't seem to be using him to the full potential you have available.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-11-08 22:11
Janlynn -
Sound to me like you need to break some old ties.
Douglas hit a 'bull's eye' for you. In your situation, I'd sure listen to him.
If I ever felt like I just read a "Let's git outta Dodge!" post -- yours is it.
I wouldn't buy a horn from this guy, or anybody else, with the circumstances you describe, Janlynn. There are just too many unsettling things attached to this 'deal' to make it feel okay. The only choice you've been given (finally!) is 'take it or leave it'. I don't know about you or others but I just don't do business this way. YOU'RE THE CUSTOMER, remember? -- you either get to select an instrument you like or you don't. I vote for 'leave it'.
Then go where you can get some decent customer service 'cause you sure ain't gettin' it where you are now.
- ron b -
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Author: RonD
Date: 2001-11-08 22:32
If you are not certain that you must have this horn forget it and look for another. This uncertainy will haunt you forever.
Shop around.
If you make this purchase now you will always have doubts. You should be absoluty sure of the quality of the clarinet you buy in order to be happy.
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-11-09 01:07
As I tell my children:
Don't rush.Be patient. For every "good deal" you pass up there are ten more coming down the pike!
As two Rons and a Douglas already said, I wouldn't buy it.
In fact, I wouldn't buy anything from this guy, he sounds like a scheister.
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Author: Ken
Date: 2001-11-09 04:15
Not to interrupt everyone in "mid-slam" but if it was me I wouldn't be so quick to toss this horn aside. Since when is a loose ring bell, a few tarnished keys and mediocore customer service the yardstick in which fine instruments are judged? You're not going to service the horn with this guy anyway. Before assessing the horn seriously, I'd first make sure the serial #s match on both upper and lower joints then contact your teacher and double-check this guy's story about him/her selecting it personally and backing out. If the facts don't jive run don't walk away. Then give the horn a chance, keep it a "couple weeks" (now it's your turn since the he made you chase HIM), play it until your satisfied one way or another. The horn could be new, not likely though. But all the nit-noid blemishes (if the keys really aren't worn just tarnished) can be easily fixed and serve as a great bargaining chip if this guy's willing to haggle. Definitely, have patience and shop around as much as you can; time, gas money and shipping costs. Make the effort to seek other horns and play test at least a few "new" Vintages, 2 or 3 Festivals, Greenline R-13s and Greenline Festivals (if you can find those) and maybe even a Selmer Signature for contrast and comparison (that horn runs $2,550). Be certain in your hunt to find another horn as an "ace" that you'll buy, if it was shipped to you send the other back and write a check for the other. If you went to the store in person ask them if they'll set it aside a few days for you, or if you can put down a nominal/refundable deposit.
But if this guy's horn is the best and you want it, call him and tell him you know the horn is used, you called a couple shops and the horn will need $500 work to get it back up to snuff. Offer him $1,600, take it or leave it, if he takes it you got a deal. (I wouldn't pay any more for it than that) If not fine, you got the other one anyway. If so, take the savings and ship it to Bill and Linda Brannen for the full treatment (about $550 including shipping). It'll come back playing better then ever and bright as a penny. Then you'll have a great horn you can be even happier and live with.
Not to defend this gentlemen, but we've all from time to time have dealt with people who seem shady (and this guy's a major candidate) but turns out they're just poor business people, scatter brains and possess all the organizational skills of Homer Simpson. It can be very frustrating especially when you're spending your hard-earned doe.
Also, I don't know what it is about US clarinet players, but a lot of us seem to be inflicted with an unatural attraction of having "new stuff". Especially, sheet music. I'm a sucker everytime, those vendors make a mint off me at the conventions.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-11-09 13:00
I wouldn't buy this particular instrument because I think you would always have questions in your mind concerning it. Also, you wouldn't feel you had made a good deal and that would "hang" like a cloud over your head the whole time you own it (unless that kind of thing doesn't bother you).
I looked at a "new" Selmer Signature from Brook Mays in Austin, Tx a couple of months back that was in a double case (it was a Bb), and pointed that out to the manager. He said, "I don't know why that happened, they certainly do come in single cases. I'll get back with you on that." He never answered my question about that and I didn't buy the clarinet. Period. I've not even heard back from him. Not much of a salesman. Wouldn't want to be tied into any kind of investment of that magnitude with someone who was so cavalier in his attitude.
There are lots of honest dealers out there who specialize in new Buffet clarinets (Peter Spriggs is one, Lisa Argiris at International Musical Suppliers is another) who sell at a good discount price and send out excellent merchandise. I have communicated with Peter on occasion and know people who have bought from him and are quite pleased. His stuff is set up with cork pads in the uppers and hand-mades in the lower much like the Brannen Woodwind service a lot of pros have done to their clarinets right after buying them.
I've personally bought several clarinets from Lisa and always been happy with them.
So, I think I'd get this one back to the guy and get on the wire to Peter or Lisa or someone of their caliber and get one you'll be proud to own.
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