 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2001-09-11 16:17
A question to the professional clarinetists (and other musicians) out there: Are there any orchestral works that are so difficult that even professional orchestras have real problems playing them? This question comes to mind every time I hear Ravel's Daphnis & Chloe, for instance, which just sounds to me like it's horrendously difficult to play for every section of the orchestra (I've never played it myself so I don't have first-hand experience). I used to think that Rite of Spring was probably one such work, but having played it on bass clarinet some years ago, I discovered it's not as hard to play as it sounds, but nevertheless.......Some liner notes for one recording I have of Janacek's Sinfonietta mentioned that the flute/piccolo parts in one of the movements, as originally written, were so difficult that for many years every orchestra played them down an octave. Are there other examples of this phenomenon?
A related question: If and when such a hypothetical piece of music is tackled by a major symphony, how do the players handle it? Is there ever a situation where a first-chair player in a major orchestra simply cannot play the music as written, and if so, what happens? (no names need be mentioned, of course.)
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Author: Gary
Date: 2001-09-11 17:07
Yes, there are pieces so difficult that professional orchestras have difficulty playing them. There is a Ginastera piece for string orchestra that is so difficult that until recently there has only been one available recording of it. Unfortunately the name of is escapes me right now, but it was a wonderful piece.
There is another Ginastera piece for full orchestra, Variciones Concertantes, which is quite difficult also; the 4th movement of which is a the clarinet variation. Half-way through it there a HUGE A major run that terminated on c# in the extreme altissimo. Well, the story goes that when Ginastera was working with the Cleveland Orchestra, Marcellus couldn't (or didn't want to) play that. When he ended up doing was dropping down an octave midway through so that he didn't have to play so high. Other have had the Eb clarinet take over the run so that the high notes are sounded. (There's an old recording of this piece with Boston Symphony in which Gino Cioffi plays the solo. I'm not sure, but I think Wright refused to play it, so Cioffi did instead. Like I say, I'm NOT sure what the story is, but there is a story attached to that recording.)
There are many other pieces out there that pose quite a challenge to professional orchestras. Sometimes the just don't perform them, and other times (if it's a premiere, or the composer is still alive) performers will simply request a re-write.
happy practicing,
Gary
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Author: Ron Krentzman
Date: 2001-09-11 19:09
No, you are wrong.
Peter Hadcock played the run on Eb clarinet.
BTW, most clarinetists play this on the A, so the run goes up to D, not C#. David Niethammer wrote an interesting article about this work in The Clarinet a few years ago.
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Author: Gary
Date: 2001-09-11 19:58
I am wrong about what? About Cioffi playing it, or about Marcellus playing down the octave.....what? The run starts too low to be played entirely on Eb clarinet. If you saying I'm wrong about Cioffi, then I must tell you I've heard the record of Cioffi playing it....his name was on the record jacket.
Hasta,
Gary
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Author: Suzanne
Date: 2001-09-11 21:07
Yes, it's a written D. It's not impossible, you can play the D by overblowing high E, it just doesn't sound... as pretty as it might in a lower register.
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Author: Ron Krentzman
Date: 2001-09-12 02:18
To Gary:
You are wrong about Wright not being able to play it. It was recorded before he joined the BSO (in 1971 I believe).
Cioffi did play most of the solo but Hadcock did play the run on Eb, starting on the second measure.
To Susan:
If you were at the National Symphony audition a few years ago, you would have heard several players hit this D beautifully. In particular there was a player named Wagner Marcus (or was it Marcus Wagner...) who performed this run flawlessly. He didn't get the job, BTW.
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Author: David Niethamer
Date: 2001-09-21 16:52
I've played this piece - even recorded it, though the recording is out of print. As Ron Krentzman remembers, Marta Weldon and I wrote an article about it for "The Clarinet". In the article, and on the recording, Marta played the end of the run on Eb clarinet.
Last year we played this again, and I acquired a C clarinet. If you play this on C clarinet, the top note is a more reasonable altissimo B. Playing it on C clarinet requires one phrase of the solo to be played on Bb, but the changes are easy, and not at any of the really nasty parts of the variation. Playing on C clarinet also has another advantage in the last phrase - the top note is only a B, so the figutre is much easier to play.
David
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Author: David Dow symphony Nb
Date: 2002-04-25 11:21
The Rite of Spring and Daphnis are pretty tame compared to some of the stuff in Edgard Varese and even some of the recent stuff coming out of England by Birtwhistle and Ferneyhough. I mean some of the stuff they require you to play is wild....for examply try Hymnos by Maxwell Davies or even the solo for clarinet The Seven Brightnesses...I also remember a concert of Quebec composer Jauques Hetu's music being wild and up to excriating fast sppeds without a break! at least Stravinsky and Ravel let you breathe,....
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Author: David Dow symphony Nb
Date: 2002-04-25 11:31
Try the following: Varese's Arcana clarinet part. Try Elliot Carter Concerto for Two Orchestras clarinet parts...Morton Feldman music for clarinet....Luciano Berio's orchestral music or sequenzas and the Symphonies of Havergail Brian. Sibelius 1St has a rough Scherzo...Mahler Sympnony No 6 and 7 are long difficult pieces, Prokofiev Classical Symphony Finale is no picnic....Harry Partch...some of the music of Barber in his ballet Medea...parts of the Firebird by Stravinsky... Elgar in some spots is fairly rough and requires great speed....Shostakovich later works for orchestra have taxing wind music...Shoenberg's Pelleas et Melisande goes up to double high "C". There's always some rough stuff lurking around...time to pratice.
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