 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: GBK
Date: 2020-01-02 11:30
Michael Lowenstern purchases two Chinese-made clarinets from Amazon and takes them to a top NYC repair person who takes them apart to see how well (or badly) they're put together! And then he repairs one of them to perfect playing condition.
A fascinating and revealing video ... especially if you enjoy clarinet repair and set-up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uOClLW4Adg
...GBK
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Author: Ed
Date: 2020-01-02 17:01
I saw that one yesterday. Very interesting.
One of the issues is that the cost of putting one of those instruments into really good playing shape is likely very cost prohibitive and there are probably many techs who would not want to spend the time on doing that rebuilding. You would probably spend far more than the cost of the instrument.
Anyone who is doing any teaching these days, especially in schools likely comes across man of these instruments. Even if you spend the $ and time to get them playing well, many of them are very out of tune and will not play in tune with themselves.
I understand that may parents want to get their child a bright shiny new instrument (and who can blame them as you get so many freebies, especially those gloves!), but they would do FAR better to get a used student instrument from one of the well known established brands. Those instruments would be light years ahead of this.
In my experiences, many of these "no name" instruments are very poorly made with terrible mouthpieces and in cases that often self destruct in no time. The reeds are absolutely dreadful. Even 2.5 strength plays like a .5, sounds awful with terrible quality cane and really bad cuts. I have seen them so off that one side of the reed is mostly bark. I have also seen them as green as a leaf.
I am hoping that little by little we see better quality in these imports, but as long as people are selling these and parents are buying them I imagine they will continue to flood the market.
Last year I recall one of these instruments that was selling online for $26. I have to wonder what it costs to make one of these.
I'll stop ranting now, but it was a very enlightening video.
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Author: Djudy
Date: 2020-01-02 18:04
Worse than the money involved, think of the frustration and disappointment of the beginner who wants to play well and simply can't because of their rig. And the dismay of the teacher/band director who is responsable for the student/orchestra output. It would seem that with the back-to-school lists of supplies there should be a prep sheet for buying/renting an instrument for parents and students to study before they get anything !
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-01-02 18:41
Thank you "Djudy" for a reply more thoughtful than the video.
I was pretty disgusted by the "Ligature" video from Earspasm. The "Drunk Mouthpiece Testing" was ok, but this one is pretty irresponsible.
I find that the take away could be that there is some legitimacy to the $100 clarinets and it's only a matter of putting in some repair work to get them up to speed. TRAGIC !!!!!
There was a student I ran into a few years ago that was (and hope still is) pretty involved with the clarinet. He had a Mendini clarinet for a year and found that it was ALWAYS in disrepair.
Let's also not gloss over the pitch issue which was addressed in some manner before the final play test in the video. Pitch irregularity globally as well as internally (just getting a scale to be in tune with itself) is a MAJOR issue with these inexpensive clarinets.
If it were not for Earspasm's bass clarinet excerpt video I'd think his only gig was racking up advertising dollars off the internet based on "hits."
This one should be placed in the round file along with the yellow and red mouthpieces that came with those "clarinets."
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: Ed
Date: 2020-01-02 21:21
Quote:
Worse than the money involved, think of the frustration and disappointment of the beginner who wants to play well and simply can't because of their rig.
Unfortunately, the student gets frustrated and has no idea that it is the instrument that is holding them back. They just think they are not doing well or that playing is really hard.
Quote:
And the dismay of the teacher/band director who is responsible for the student/orchestra output. It would seem that with the back-to-school lists of supplies there should be a prep sheet for buying/renting an instrument for parents and students to study before they get anything
It is tough to deal with, knowing that the instrument does not work well or is out of tune with the other students and that there is no way to get it to a reasonable standard. One can tell parents to avoid these instruments, but they think with their wallet. They see an instrument on Amazon or eBay that looks like an clarinet and often they see a number of reviews that say that it is a terrific instrument (either bogus or written by someone equally clueless) and buy it. What is even worse is that there are local music stores who rent these type of "instruments" so they can make their money back immediately with little investment.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-01-02 22:25
Fortunately I have not seen these instruments in local stores, but that would be equally unconscionable.
......................Paul Aviles
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2020-01-03 10:36
What’s to be criticised about this video is perhaps the fun they’re having. Because looking at this more soberly, I find there‘s little to laugh about.
These instruments are literally trash, produced for a market that shouldn’t exist, imported from far away and made by people who (judging the way these are made) are exploited and don’t know better. Of course, there’s also decent instruments coming from China, but a large portion is made up of these „99$“ clarinets.
What I find depressing is how this is a failure of our modern economies/ import laws. This isn’t about protectionism, this is about allowing anyone to produce anything these days, and enough people will buy it off amazon/ebay/ali, you name it, because it’s CHEAP, and that’s it. Think of the waste alone we create by having everything shipped to us directly. Think of unfair tax avoiding strategies many of the retailers employ. Etc. pp. Worst of all, people are willing to buy literal trash when there’s thousands of old, musty instruments, that just need a decent repair to run well for years again (see the Bundy thread).
So rather than to support local businesses with competent craftsmanship, you can buy a 99$ clarinet on amazon and receive it within 1-2 days and it’s also yellow. Amazing.
Best regards
Christian
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Author: Djudy
Date: 2020-01-03 11:55
Here in France there are very strict laws governing the quality of children's toys, counterfit goods, foodstuffs. If you are caught making or even just owning a counterfit or illegal product (that discount Dior handbag or the fake box of Lego you picked up at the border on the way back from vacation in ...), you risk heavy fines. Perhaps musical instruments and their buyers should be protected as are toys and the kids who play with them.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-01-03 22:37
Here's the issue. These are not "counterfeits" in that they do not claim to be some better brand. They are not technically "rip offs" in that they are not really over charging for them. One should realize that the complexity required out of the fabrication of a musical instrument would require some expense.
My chief complaint is that there may be students that move on to "other things" out of frustration with equipment that ultimately CANNOT function properly to begin with and most certainly will not perform even to its own precarious standards for any reasonable length of time.
I once worked on a budget horn of this ilk (I do not recall a brand name). The first problem was that the spring material was of poor quality and would not "hold" a decent opposing force. Many of them had to be "overly tight" or they would not "spring" at all. One flat spring broke as I slightly changed its shape and I had to replace it with a normal blue steel spring.
Then there is the pressure placed posts (referred to in the video). They can easily come loose, causing spring tension issues to get worse but also causing key and axle binding issues.
Yes, our hapless hero (Michael Lowenstern) can get a cheap clarinet to sound ok for a few minutes.......but that is about the maximum performance one could ever expect. It is NOT a less expensive option to a decent student horn (if that is what one can afford).
I hope that I don't come off as some sort of elitist. Clearly any specialized activity (sports, the arts, sciences) require commitment of time, effort and expense. It is up to parents to do their due diligence researching all that is required to launch into learning music (to include the cost and time of private instruction). I am sympathetic to parents who have a child starting their fourth (for example) extracurricular activity after brief, unsuccessful attempts at three others. But nothing ensures failure faster than coming into something below the minimum required effort.
This was the opposite of a sophomoric video. Sorry. I'm not looking to make advertising dollars off "hits" and "likes."
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: m1964
Date: 2020-01-03 23:28
I believe that we have to look at these cheap "clarinets" as something disposable and not judge them the same way as we judge student models from established manufacturers.
Regarding school instruments: a few years ago, my boss came to me and said, "My son plays clarinet in school but he cannot play at all! You played clarinet before, why do you think he cannot play?"
I told him to bring son's clarinet to work- the next morning I saw a Selmer that was leaking from probably every pad on the upper joint. I explained to him that it would not make any sense for them to fix the clarinet that belongs to the school so the following morning I brought him my own stencil French clarinet that I played when I studied. That clarinet was out of tune but held suction and all the keys worked fine.
Let's be realistic: majority of the parents are working people, who, after full work day, may not even have enough energy to "bother" with their son or daughter's music lessons.
Just like Paul said above, any specialized activity requires additional expense and research. Not every parent can afford to do either or both.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2020-01-04 10:50
A trombone player bought a green one for a laugh. That was all that you could do given the circumstances as the intonation was all over the place what with such a short barrel and all the other defects.
If you want a fancy coloured clarinet, buy a Vito Dazzler of the colour of your choice which can be picked up for around £50 and then spend the money on having it professionally overhauled as you'll have a decent playing instrument at the end of it.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repairer
Single and Double Reed Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2020-01-04 17:06
Chris P wrote:
>
> If you want a fancy coloured clarinet, buy a Vito Dazzler of
> the colour of your choice which can be picked up for around
> £50 and then spend the money on having it professionally
> overhauled as you'll have a decent playing instrument at the
> end of it.
>
Hi Chris,
The key phrase is to "have it professionally overhauled".
Would an average working parent buy a NEW clarinet and then overhaul it?
The chances are not. Maybe someone does research and comes across this thread and then your posts will be helpful to that parent.
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Author: Djudy
Date: 2020-01-04 17:54
I was going to suggest that Vito was a reasonably priced and overlooked instrument; "The Band Director's Favorite" someone once said. I have a very nice vintage Vito that I use to play outside (camping) and it does the job. Very solid keywork, ok tuning. If you get it from a music store it should already have been gone over. I also had, for the same reasons, a surprising plastic Evette by Buffet Crampon, probably from the same period. If price is really the issue, with a decent mp these are a better solution than a new made-in-china or wherever piece of junk. My mp cost more than the Evette !
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2020-01-05 01:18
There's a clear difference to having a used clarinet professionally overhauled by a reputable repairer and having someone without the skill overhaul it only to have done a half-arsed job.
Guess which one will be the better player?
And there are brand new clarinets that can do with being professionally overhauled (even pro models) as they're not well finished by the factory that made them.
If anyone's buying a used clarinet, buy from a reputable seller who guarantees their instruments and their work, or expect to have it fully overhauled if buying from anywhere else.
And if anyone doing their research is reading this, factor in the cost of a full overhaul on any used clarinet you buy. And that's me being helpful.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repairer
Single and Double Reed Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2020-01-05 11:43
The first Chinese clarinets in the video required no adjustment and was "pro level" from the start. The second one was crap and required work worth more than its initial price. But also instruments sold as "pro level" can leak or have other problems that require initial work. Though chances are good they require substantially less work.
The most interesting part was the sound test, which (again) shows how little different clarinet bodies affect the sound. There can be more differences that only the player can notice, like vibrations, uneven resistance, and more.
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Author: fernie121
Date: 2020-01-05 12:03
Forget clarinet body material. How about the fact that Jupiter clarinet certainly has a different acoustical design from that pro-level Selmer and yet I really couldn’t hear much of a difference.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2020-01-05 12:11
The Selmer and Jupiter definitely were the better sounding clarinets in the blind test.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repairer
Single and Double Reed Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2020-01-05 13:05
Chris P. wrote:
"... there are brand new clarinets that can do with being professionally overhauled (even pro models) as they're not well finished by the factory that made them.
If anyone's buying a used clarinet, buy from a reputable seller who guarantees their instruments and their work, or expect to have it fully overhauled if buying from anywhere else.
And if anyone doing their research is reading this, factor in the cost of a full overhaul on any used clarinet you buy. And that's me being helpful."
Thank you, Chris!
You are absolutely right. I bought two clarinets from the action site and both were not as described.
Bought two new clarinets (Bb and later A)- both had sticking tenons and the A did not hold suction. I have not taken apart the A yet, but the Bb had at least one questionable tone hole…
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Author: ClarinetLord
Date: 2025-12-01 16:00
David Kinder used this video to try to prove that $90/cheap clarinets are fine when the other guy in the video said he heard substantial differences in person. Very logical person.
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Author: David H. Kinder
Date: 2025-12-01 19:48
That's not what I said or implied. Your reading comprehension is severely lacking.
I posted it to demonstrate that teachers are familiar with most ISOs made in China and this video demonstrated that they are correct with their assertions. Same reasons why technicians may refuse to work on such instruments.
Apparently, despite all your trolling, you failed to watch my entire video, or you'd understand the true message I was trying to convey.
For anyone else who is curious, my video is called: "Behavioral Finance Analysis: More Than A Clarinet: Making Happier Decisions in Music and Money."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoJ6AH3SOmc
I will also be submitting this as an academic paper to the Journal of Personal Finance for publication.
Ridenour AureA Bb clarinet
Ridenour Homage mouthpiece
Vandoren Optimum Silver ligature (plate 1)
Vandoren Traditional #4 reeds
ATG System, Cordier Reed Trimmer, and A.L.E. Reed Balancer
Post Edited (2025-12-01 20:04)
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Author: David H. Kinder
Date: 2025-12-01 19:55
Here's another video he can poo-poo on to justify why he didn't get into all-state:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ggGUnUVG960
Ridenour AureA Bb clarinet
Ridenour Homage mouthpiece
Vandoren Optimum Silver ligature (plate 1)
Vandoren Traditional #4 reeds
ATG System, Cordier Reed Trimmer, and A.L.E. Reed Balancer
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Author: ClarinetLord
Date: 2025-12-01 23:30
I won't bother watching 2 hours of nonsense. Your views will never be the majority.
Glissandos aren't used at all for TMEA All-State auditions. They're never in the Rose etudes. And I've done one on a beginner model clarinet. Not that impressive.
I love how you kept censoring my comments on your channel. It's as if you knew you're wrong. I wouldn't have banned you from my channel.
Post Edited (2025-12-01 23:35)
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Author: David H. Kinder
Date: 2025-12-02 00:23
No, you kept posting BS and slander and I won't have it.
It's more like I know how to moderate my platforms and you don't like it.
And none of your YouTube handles have any content. You don't have any subscribers. No videos of your "better than everyone else but no one is smart enough to notice" clarinet playing.
You are your own worst enemy, but you lash out against everyone else. You just keep shrouding yourself in your cloak of anonymity or someone will see what a scared little boy you are.
Ridenour AureA Bb clarinet
Ridenour Homage mouthpiece
Vandoren Optimum Silver ligature (plate 1)
Vandoren Traditional #4 reeds
ATG System, Cordier Reed Trimmer, and A.L.E. Reed Balancer
Post Edited (2025-12-02 00:28)
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Author: ClarinetLord
Date: 2025-12-02 00:29
Except, what I said was true. Ridenour lies about everything. He or his son defamed buckspan by saying he abused his bass clarinet when he didn't. I don't lash out against everyone. You go against common sense in the clarinet world.
A lot of people agree with me.
https://www.saxontheweb.net/threads/ridenour-a-clarinet.170810/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Clarinet/comments/1m9dorw/ridenour_libertas_vs_backun_alpha_for_outdoor/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Clarinet/comments/v539zq/ridenour_147_bass_clarinet/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Clarinet/comments/1j0nifs/clarinets_by_copeland_ridenour_how_are_they/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Clarinet/comments/1mjw38s/kessler_vs_ridenour_bass_clarinets/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Clarinet/comments/3hwdu9/ridenour_mouthpieces/
Post Edited (2025-12-02 00:42)
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Author: David H. Kinder
Date: 2025-12-02 00:46
THOSE are the links you post?
I swear you need to improve your reading comprehension.
14 year old SOTW link: Some minor adjustments are called for and a preference for a standard register key rather than the 'spatula' shape.
Reddit Link #1: The silver plating issue. I have that too. It began to wear down. Why? Probably because I was applying too much silver polish and it wore down to the copper in some areas. The fix? I got a Caswell Brush 'N Plate silver kit and I've restored the plating rather well and I WAX my keys rather than using a silver polish.
Reddit Link #2: Again an adjustment to be done by a tech.
Reddit Link #3: Plating issue again. Regarding pads - I'll also admit that my tech was not impressed with how the pads were installed. I'll probably get a full repad job done myself at some point.
But this is akin to buying a car and the windshield wiper blades aren't quite doing the job. Just replace them and be a big boy.
Reddit Link #4: Service turn-around issue (it takes them a month for when I have sent things back myself; even when you purchase from them, there's little communication. I myself message them about once a week to get a status). A broken neck on a bass clarinet? Could be anything, so hard to make a determination on that description.
Your problem is you're looking at every strawman's post as validation to make yourself feel better about yourself.
It's human... to an extent.
When I was getting back into playing and couldn't find a Rovner Eddie Daniels ligature, I got the Versa. Despite all the positive reviews on Amazon, that thing was the worst. I got a Rovner dark and that was a slight improvement, but at least I can play on it. Now I have a Vandoren Optimum and couldn't be happier! I still kinda wonder if it was something wrong with me or the ligature.
I found a YouTube video with John Kurokawa testing fabric ligatures... and he concluded the same as I did regarding the Versa. It made me feel better - because that's confirmation bias and I wanted someone else to agree with me.
Right now, you're wanting a crowd of people to agree with you... and you're not finding it. You're being blocked and banned because of your insistence on your victim mentality instead of being a big boy and taking responsibility for yourself.
However, for someone with your self-proclaimed IQ of 140, I shouldn't have to explain it to you. And you'd watch my 2 hour video and actually understand it.
But you're just trying to make yourself feel good because the rest of humanity is probably shunning you.
And for good reason.
You're smart enough (supposedly).
Figure it out.
Ridenour AureA Bb clarinet
Ridenour Homage mouthpiece
Vandoren Optimum Silver ligature (plate 1)
Vandoren Traditional #4 reeds
ATG System, Cordier Reed Trimmer, and A.L.E. Reed Balancer
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Author: David H. Kinder
Date: 2025-12-02 00:47
"I don't lash out against everyone. You go against common sense in the clarinet world."
In the business world, that's called being a contrarian thinker... and you can agree or not.
I do not (and probably never will) agree with YOU on anything.
Ridenour AureA Bb clarinet
Ridenour Homage mouthpiece
Vandoren Optimum Silver ligature (plate 1)
Vandoren Traditional #4 reeds
ATG System, Cordier Reed Trimmer, and A.L.E. Reed Balancer
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Author: ClarinetLord
Date: 2025-12-02 00:54
You're the one who thinks Ridenour clarinets are in any way comparable to actual professional clarinets despite the plethora of evidence. You must be a really bad player.
My reading comprehension is fine, and all I see is negativity towards Ridenour clarinets. Sounds like you're just projecting. If you need to take a new Ridenour clarinet to a tech, then it's a bad company. I can't expect anything more from a clarinet made in China. Not one time did I say that I had a 140 IQ.
Go ahead and buy a CG Carbon. I can't wait to hear you play.
Post Edited (2025-12-02 00:56)
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Author: ClarinetLord
Date: 2025-12-02 00:57
"Grew up as a bass clarinet primary. Couldn’t afford any bass, new or used, until after my degrees when I received a family estate. Finally grabbed the Ridenour a few years ago because I needed something for a gig within a month’s notice, and had other instruments I had to prioritize for pit work. I’ve never felt like it could handle what I can do as a player, and there’s too many unsatisfying playing characteristics about it to be worth it against its current competition on the market."
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Author: David H. Kinder
Date: 2025-12-02 01:00
ClarinetLord wrote:
> You're the one who thinks Ridenour clarinets are in any way
> comparable to actual professional clarinets despite the
> plethora of evidence. You must be a really bad player.
>
> My reading comprehension is fine, and all I see is negativity
> towards Ridenour clarinets. Sounds like you're just projecting.
> If you need to take a new Ridenour clarinet to a tech, then
> it's a bad company. I can't expect anything more from a
> clarinet made in China. Not one time did I say that I had a 140
> IQ.
>
> Go ahead and buy a CG Carbon. I can't wait to hear you play.
>
>
> Post Edited (2025-12-02 00:56)
This is my last post here because you aren't worth talking to.
I posted this thread some time ago. I am quite aware and balanced in my thoughts and expectations after OTHERS on this board helped me to understand.
There are MANY professional players that take their instruments to get a full repad and overhaul on a BRAND NEW clarinet. Ever heard of getting your R13 "brannenized"? It was quite common.
Anyway, here you are for your reading entertainment. I'm done entertaining you.
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=513990&t=513990
Ridenour AureA Bb clarinet
Ridenour Homage mouthpiece
Vandoren Optimum Silver ligature (plate 1)
Vandoren Traditional #4 reeds
ATG System, Cordier Reed Trimmer, and A.L.E. Reed Balancer
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Author: ClarinetLord
Date: 2025-12-02 01:04
My R13 was fine out of the box. Just needed to warm up a bit. I can't say the same about the Ridenour. Those people agreeing with me help my case.
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2025-12-02 03:59
I'm so tempted to break the first rule listed under this site's rules, the one about ad hominem attacks, and the fifth rule as well, the one about obscenity. That would probably only serve to get me banned, while some deranged polluter would persist, respawning and feeding off the reliable, push-button replies his nemeses serve up. Besides the continuous deluge of bad news in the world and the stresses of holiday season, I had to miss practice today, and winter has come. What small trolls should realize is there are really crazy people out there, barely controlling themselves in public.
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2025-12-02 04:21
Philip,
I was cleaning out a spare room the other day and ran across a precious gift sent to me by GBK - a clipping from one of ICA's publications where they spoke to my first college instructor.
Seeing GBK's name pop up on the bboard this morning filled me with fond memories and hopes. Then, I made the mistake of opening the thread and discovered what was waiting inside...such a contrast to GBK and what the bboard used to be!
I won't be back to the bboard for a bit. Growing tired of this trend. Maybe I'll just look through the mailing list/archives.
Fuzzy
;^)>>>
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