 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ed
Date: 2025-10-13 16:33
There has been some discussion about this over the years.
I realize that there is a lot of variations of taste and opinion regarding different cuts of reeds and that no system is perfect. But, Is there any logical reason why the makers cannot just adjust their numbering system so within their own brand a 3 is more or less the same in all cuts?
I would assume that others also find it tedious to have to pore over charts to figure out whether to move up or down in strength when trying the various styles. It would seem so much more user (and wallet) friendly to know that there is a certain similarity to the designation. It often reminds me of the famous scene in Spinal Tap "yeah, but these go to 11" Why not just adjust the numbering?
And let's not even get into the logic (?) behind the numbering of the Vandoren synthetic reed!
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2025-10-13 17:28
First Ed I want to make sure that we're addressing the same problem.
Take this chart of recommended Vandoren reed strengths, by Vandoren, for their, for example, M15 mouthpiece: https://vandoren.fr/en/vandoren-mouthpieces/m15-bb-clarinet-mouthpiece/
I think that your beef is that depending on which model of their reed you use on this (or other ) mouthpieces, the strength recommendations can vary, and it would be nice if they were consistent, at least across a manufacturer.
I think it's the very frustrations with this numbering, (and perhaps Vandoren's ability to more precisely control strength in their synthetic offering) that may have led to the new strength system launched with and exclusive to this product.
Certainly I don't disagree with your claims, but I'm tempted to say that if tomorrow Vandoren recalibrated their cane strengths to be more consistent across their reed cuts https://vandoren.fr/en/reeds-technical-elements/ I am not sure that that much would change for us players.
I say this because the mechanisms by which, Vandoren at least, grades their reeds is IMHO enormously crude and inaccurate: not that I am confident there is a better way, let alone one that wouldn't astronomically raise purchase cost.
As you may know, all reeds of a particular reed design (e.g. 56 Rue LePic) are cut as close to identically as their machines and quality assurance of their accuracy will allow, Vandoren claiming accuracy between reeds to less than the width of a human hair.
It is mother nature who builds into the cane the propensity for more or less rigidity (strength variability from reed to reed across one model of near identically cut reeds.)
Once cut, and completely dry, a puff of a consistent quantity and pressure of air, at a consistent distance from the reed, is blown upon it and the reed's deflection from this force is noted: the more deflection the weaker the strength assigned to this reed. It's much like an ocular tonometer tests for interocular pressure for glaucoma.
Whose to say that once wet: a process that makes the reed more pliable, that its strength remains consistent with the dry puff test. Within the same, say, 3.5 strength set of Vandoren V21 reeds, your guess is as good as mine as to whether they all respond to moisture, or for that matter the stress of vibration over time in similar ways.
My approach to this obstacle is similar to the one woodworkers take to buying a 2 x 4 piece of wood. That purchase is only of some raw material that first needs to visit the craftsman's jointer and planer (two woodworker tools for squaring one side and then using it as a frame of reference to flatten the other 3 sides respectively).
By analogy, I buy reeds slightly too strong for my taste (in my case 3.5 across all Vandoren brands) and then, considering them raw material like the 2 x 4, sand them down via, in my case, mostly Ridenour's ATG method, to where they play comfortably and evenly on either side for me.
I have no idea if my removal of material deviates the reed for its original contour design or if it is physically similar on either side, much less to I care. Just as cane can vary from one reed in the box to the next, whose to say that even within the single reeds itself that the fibers that give it strength are consistent inter-reed. Who knows, if I took a measuring device to the reed after adjustment if its physical dimensions from one side to the other would be more or less symmetrical (probably less) and for that matter who cares. I strive for consistency in play, not dimensions: of course if the two happen to jibe, great, so be it.
It is realities like these that leave me with skepticism over reed copying machines. As the base material being cut is a product of the variability of mother nature, whose to say that such cutting is nothing more, once complete, than a starting point for further play based removal of reed material to the player's liking.
So I guess the TL;DR moral of this story is to buy a consistent strength across all the models, that's slightly more than you can play out of the box, and resolve to reed adjustment techniques, or go synthetic, which of course replaces some reed issues with others.
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Author: kurth83
Date: 2025-10-14 00:46
Thanks for the tip about the ATG system, just bought it. :-)
Aging classical trumpet player learning clarinet as a second.
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2025-10-14 02:47
kurth83 wrote:
> Thanks for the tip about the ATG system, just bought it. :-)
>
In a minefield of useless clarinet equipment lies one particular product that's the shining beacon on top of the hill: the ATG system.
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