 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2025-01-23 00:13
In the fairly distant past, I thought I had started a list of Clarinet Repair Facilities that primarily worked on professional clarinets. For some reason, I can't seem to find it.
I would like to start a different list of repair facilities that are willing to work on student clarinets that are not CSO's.
I have a like new Vito Classic 7242 which needs pad realignments. The pads are in excellent condition, it's just that whoever installed them didn't take the time to properly seat them. This equates to keys having to be pressed down harder for the tone to begin.
The only place that I can think of at the moment is Kessler and Sons.
Anyway, if you can think of others, I would appreciate knowing about them so I can compile a list of names with prices and locations.
Thank you for your time.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2025-01-23 01:21
Dan Shusta wrote:
>... I have a like new Vito Classic 7242 which needs pad
> realignments. The pads are in excellent condition, it's just
> that whoever installed them didn't take the time to properly
> seat them. This equates to keys having to be pressed down
> harder for the tone to begin.
>
> The only place that I can think of at the moment is Kessler and
> Sons.
>
> Anyway, if you can think of others, I would appreciate knowing
> about them so I can compile a list of names with prices and
> locations.
>
> Thank you for your time.
Hi Dan,
Working on a student-level clarinet is not much different from working on a professional level clarinet. It may be a little easier to install new pads on a plastic clarinet because tone holes do not need refacing but everything else is the same: keys alignment, venting, spring tension.
In addition, it may be more difficult to regulate a student-level clarinet because of softer key metal, poor key fitting or/and lower quality springs.
The pads on your clarinet may seem to be in good condition because no one played the clarinet. However, I once tried pads from Aliexpress and it was garbage- they looked fine but would not seal 100%, no matter what I did
It is very possible that someone installed cheap pads and charged the previous owner less...
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Author: symphony1010
Date: 2025-01-23 03:03
As far as I am aware you can't 'realign' pads once the instrument has been in use and any impression from the tone hole has been made.
The idea of having to press harder just to achieve some form of coverage is totally unacceptable.
A decent, well-trained technician should be able to advise on what's going on here. I'm not aware that most technicians see themselves discriminating between professional and student instruments.
Indeed, if the instrument is in the state you describe, you probably need one of the better repairers!
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Author: m1964
Date: 2025-01-23 05:41
Pads can be re-seated, but not always
Time to see a tech.
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2025-01-23 05:51
Hi m1964 and symphony1010,
Thank you for your informed responses. I forgot about the impressions.
IMHO, whoever repadded this Vito, the lowest big pad is so far off that I can actually see light coming through the outer edge when shinning a flashlight into the bottom end. Yes, if I press harder, the light disappears. That's just one of many pads that are offset.
Since a life threatening illness has entered the family, my thinking hasn't been too clear, but I have to do whatever I can to maintain a somewhat positive mental attitude.
The cost of a minor overhaul of my Vito would probably be around 3 times what I paid for it because besides the pads, I can tell that a lot of regulation would need to be done. That just doesn't make any sense to me. The only avenue that appears to be open to me is to buy a recently overhauled Alpha that has the option of being returned if it doesn't meet my expectations. I've listened to 5 different people playing it and I admit that I'm impressed.
Any other suggestions would greatly be appreciated.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2025-01-23 06:00
Dan Shusta wrote:
> I have a like new Vito Classic 7242 which needs pad
> realignments. The pads are in excellent condition, it's just
> that whoever installed them didn't take the time to properly
> seat them. This equates to keys having to be pressed down
> harder for the tone to begin.
>
It's "like new" but in fact, how old is it. Pads that have never had much use can still dry out with age.
> Anyway, if you can think of others, I would appreciate knowing
> about them so I can compile a list of names with prices and
> locations.
>
There are repair techs in major centers of music activity who are busy enough repairing and overhauling good quality clarinets that they may not want to take time to work on a nearly unplayable Vito. But I don't think this is by any means universal. If you ask, all they can do is say yes or no.
Any big music store that supplies rentals to school band programs will have a repairman on staff if only to keep the rentals in useable condition. Some of those techs are actually very good and well-trained.
But be prepared to be told that the pads all should be replaced. If they aren't well-seated, I agree with symphony1010 that trying to shift them around will just allow leaks where the old impressions are. And if the pads are dried out they'll never be reliable.
Karl
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Author: symphony1010
Date: 2025-01-23 11:39
I have to say that, here in the UK, player/teachers like myself would groan if we had students starting with Vito/Bundy type instruments. There were number of other models that shops would also try to push on unsuspecting customers.
It often happened if parents went out and purchased without advice. What we liked to see was someone arrive with a basic, well set up Yamaha or Buffet B12. I don't know if Jupiter clarinets exist outside the UK but those were OK too. The rule of thumb was that if the company had a line of pro instruments then the keyword shaping and general design would be there in the student model.
I'm sure there are others around by now but I no longer teach beginners so I haven't seen that level of instrument for around 5 years.
Post Edited (2025-01-23 13:03)
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2025-01-23 13:14
kdk, I believe I purchased the Vito Classic around 13 years ago. I haven't played it much for a well known reason. It is playable, however, when I play softly over the break, the long "B" just isn't there. The bottom largest pad really was never set correctly (imo) because the inside edge is slightly wider than the outer edge and that is where the air is leaking. Another thing I noticed in the Chalumeau is that when I go from from C4 to B3(?), (left hand note to right hand note) the tonal quality changes quite noticeably. Also, I believe there is good reason to suspect that the bladder pads are dried out. I never knew that that could happen.
symphony1010, believe it or not, my first clarinet was a Buffet Crampon and that was back in 1961. No, we weren't rich...my aunt had a boyfriend who just happened to own a music store. I think it was purchased for $200.00. All I remember is that the tone with the stock mouthpiece and a 25 cent 1.5 Rico reed was warm and incredibly beautiful...a really nice memory.
I just listened to Yamaha and Buffet student clarinets. As I've read here before, the Yamahas are noticeably brighter in the clarion range. One of the things that surprised me about the Alpha is that standard sized barrels simply will not fit onto the top section tenon which, of course, means that any better wooden barrel has to be bought from Backun.
Not sure what I'm going to do yet.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2025-01-23 14:09
Dan Shusta wrote:
> kdk, I believe I purchased the Vito Classic around 13 years
> ago. I haven't played it much for a well known reason. It is
> playable, however, when I play softly over the break, the long
> "B" just isn't there. The bottom largest pad really was never
> set correctly (imo) because the inside edge is slightly wider
> than the outer edge and that is where the air is leaking.
If a leaking the bottom pad is the only reason for long B to balk, the pad can be levelled by a skilled tech. Assuming it's held in by some kind of heat-sensitive adhesive, the tech heats the pad cup and shifts the pad slightly without removing it - the tone hole impression will stay where it is. The goal is to make the pad level with the tone hole. But a more accurate way to test whether or not the pad is correctly levelled is to use a feeler - a thin strip of cigarette paper works well - and close the pad on it at the four points - 12 o'clock, 3, 6 and 9 - and see where the pad tugs on the feeler and where it doesn't.
> Another thing I noticed in the Chalumeau is that when I go from
> from C4 to B3(?), (left hand note to right hand note) the tonal
> quality changes quite noticeably.
Could be the bridge keys aren't set correctly, which can keep the pad above RH 1 from closing fully. If that pad isn't closing, it could easily be causing the long B problem as well.
> Also, I believe there is good
> reason to suspect that the bladder pads are dried out. I never
> knew that that could happen.
>
That's one of the reasons for all the synthetic pads - they don't deteriorate as much.
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Author: symphony1010
Date: 2025-01-23 15:29
I don't know where to start really so I think I'll cease my comments here. Good luck!
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2025-01-23 21:53
kdk, it's not just the bottom largest pad. I've done the feeler gauge test around all of the pads and there are quite a few that are offset or have shifted. (I used to repad my own non-professional clarinets around 35 years ago.)
As far as pads shifting around, Morrie Backun made a YouTube video about pads and glues which I found quite enlightening.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LikmoF879JY&t=298s
If the ultra soft glue gun glue was used, that could be the reason so many of my pads have shifted around (per Morrie).
symphony1010, I think you made an important point about Vito not having made any professional clarinets. The research and technology used in pro model clarinets could easily be transferred over to their student models. Thanks for your comments. That, to me, was a profound observation.
Even if I completely overhaul the Vito, I'm not getting a good feeling that it will allow me to produce the sound quality similar to the Buffet Protege.
So many things for me to check out, i.e., sound quality, intonation, evenness or tone consistency of left and right hand notes, brand reputation, affordability, quality of keywork, etc.
Thanks everyone for your comments. They are all much appreciated.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2025-01-23 21:59
Dan Shusta wrote:
> symphony1010, I think you made an important point about
> Vito not having made any professional clarinets.
Vito was Leblanc, wasn't it?
Karl
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2025-01-23 22:11
I wonder if any of the schools of instrument repair at the bottom of this link https://napbirt.org/page/RepairSchools accept instruments for repair at more economical cost than that found in the marketplace as a way for their students to gain repair experience.
....sorta of the "discount haircut" if you will, acquired by submitting one's head to the the local beauty school.... 
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2025-01-23 23:26
Yes, Karl, you're correct. Vito was made by Leblanc and they did make some very good professional clarinets. The Opus, designed by Tom Ridenour, was made by Leblanc while he was employed there.
Thanks for bringing that up.
SecondTry, Thanks for your comment. I laughed and that helped brighten my morning! There's this fellow who advertises on that auction site about repadding clarinets for $99. I understand he does the repairs for all of the local schools. However, there is that old saying..."You get what you pay for".
Thanks. That's one more thing for me to look into.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2025-01-24 01:49
Dan,
It is possible to buy an inexpensive overhauled clarinet off eBay. You need to carefully check the feedback, read the description and review all the photographs.
There are at least two-three sellers on eBay who offer completely overhauled clarinets and their listing look fine (as well as 100% feedback).
You would need to separate the junk from good items- not easy.
Or, you can watch YT videos and try to fix your Vito by yourself...
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2025-01-24 02:31
m1964,
Yes, I've been paying careful attention to the overhauled list of clarinets. Although I haven't checked all of them for return policies, the ones I've seen so far say "No returns accepted." I just don't understand their rationale. It just doesn't make much sense to me to shell out $250 to $500 or more on a freshly overhauled clarinet with a No Return Policy.
I've thought about doing it myself, but decided against it. I'm not young anymore. I'll turn 78 is less than 3 weeks.
I do have my eye on a used Alpha that was only used for about 6 months and returned to the seller which is Music&Arts if I remember correctly. They offer a 30 day trial period and the price is somewhere around $450 which makes me wonder why it's so low.
Sometimes, for me, there are simply too many options.
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Author: symphony1010
Date: 2025-01-24 19:49
Once or twice a year I coach adult, amateur players who sign up for what's called a 'Rusty Musicians' day with a professional orchestra in the UK.
Last time, I had a lovely group of around 12 players and we started with some warmups and tuning before embarking on the main repertoire for the day.
I soon discovered people with extra-short barrels, 3rd party barrels and bells and a whole array of poor mechanical setup issues. The players were surprised when I laid out what we in the orchestra use, mostly Buffet instruments with standard 65 and 66 barrels. We mostly use the same technician who is also happy to service anyone's instrument - student or professional.
What I learnt that day was that many of the players were gathering information from the Internet and were not experienced enough to distinguish between the crazy stuff and the sort of boring, solid advice that most experienced players stand by.
I'm afraid to say I see a lot of that here! Too many people falling into the trap of advice from those people or companies that have an angle. Rather than scrabble around here go and find a decent, respected professional - preferably one who is relatively steady and conventional in their thinking. Ask them for a consultation session to sort out your setup with regard to your own playing ability and a lot of grief will be spared.
Some years ago, John Davies was the main clarinet professor at the Royal Academy in London. He asked his students to play middle of the road, standard setups until they were experienced enough to dabble. I see so many suggestions of instruments, mouthpieces, buying of instruments online and much else here.
It really doesn't need to be like this if you just spend a few hours with someone who really knows what they're doing - and when they give you advice, follow it!
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2025-01-24 23:17
symphony1010,
When you wrote: "I don't know where to start really so I think I'll cease my comments here. Good luck!", I thought: Good! Now the personal insults against me and my equipment are going to stop.
But then, you wrote the post above and starting insulting everybody who was trying to help me!
So, I'm going to ask you very nicely...
Please stop.
Thanks.
Just my personal interpretations, perspective and opinions.
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Author: symphony1010
Date: 2025-01-25 00:50
I'm sorry that none of my points resonated with you.
Not quite sure why you see advice as personal insults but there you go.
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2025-01-25 02:06
symphony1010:
What I wrote here previously was totally inappropriate and for that I have sincere regret. I apologize. Hopefully, there can be peace between us again.
Mea culpa.
Post Edited (2025-01-29 22:27)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2025-01-25 18:29
Dan Shusta wrote:
>
> I'm afraid to say I see a lot of that here! Too many
> people falling into the trap of advice from those people or
> companies that have an angle. Rather than scrabble around
> here go and find a decent, respected professional -
> preferably one who is relatively steady and conventional in
> their thinking. Ask them for a consultation session to sort out
> your setup with regard to your own playing ability and a lot of
> grief will be spared."
>
> There, you just insulted everyone on the BB!
>
I'm not insulted. It's what I suggested to people for years to solve many of their "why does this happen..." questions, but the pushback was always that the questioner couldn't afford "lessons" or they preferred finding solutions for themselves. I gave up.
> IMO, this BB has more than a few highly qualified and respected
> players and teachers.
>
who haven't so far jumped in to take sides here.
> And...
>
> I like my Vito clarinet!
>
That's fine. Your original question was where to get it serviced. I think you've gotten a few general suggestions to work with. Go with them and see what needs to be done.
The point where this conversation became contentious, I think, was when you began to talk about the cost of fixing the Vito compared to finding a replacement, and what the replacement might be. Maybe that's better taken up in a different thread.
Karl
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