 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: GoDukes
Date: 2021-05-23 22:54
Hello all,
After receiving helpful advice on this board last week, I purchased a Ridenour Lyrique 925 E bass clarinet from DillonMusic.com. I received it today. I'm annoyed because, although billed as new, the case is scuffed, misaligned and has to be forced to close, and the horn has clearly been used for a while. There are discolorations on the keys in the shape of fingers - the top joint is gooky with cork grease - the mouthpiece is clearly used - even the included cork grease has been opened and used. I have taken time-stamped videos and sent them an email, and plan to discuss this with them thoroughly on Monday. Wish I had taken screen shots of the page that listed the description as new, just in case they try to tell me it was listed as used - but I didn't, and it was the last one they had in stock and the listing is no longer there. Lesson learned - please learn from me.
But mainly I am here to ask a question to you experts! When I looked down into the top of the main section, what I see is that the bore has actually been drilled visibly off-center. The "thicker" side is the front side. Is this perhaps actually a design feature? Or is it poor workmanship? And if it is poor workmanship, would it affect the sound?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2021-05-24 01:02
The bore of any clarinet should ideally be concentric with the outside, even with composite instruments. If it isn't, then it's a manufacturing error.
Sometimes the bore can be eccentric with the outside diameter if the joints are formed from extruded plastic.
With machined joints (in wood, plastic or ebonite), sometimes the pilot drill can wander off-centre when drilling the billet and that can cause the bore to be eccentric to the outer diameter when it's bored up to the finished diameter as the bore drills will tend to follow the pilot hole, but in this case the ends should be concentric even if the bore ends up banana-shaped and the outside is dead straight.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: DougR
Date: 2021-05-24 03:29
well, yeah, and you might also consider letting Dillon know that at least one of the readers of this bulletin board has considered doing business with Dillon, and is waiting on that to see how they handle what (to me) looks like potential misrepresentation (used sold as new) and perhaps a defective instrument at that, that should have been checked over before it went out the door.
My impression is they have a pretty good reputation as a brass dealer, but I'll be curious to see how they handle this. Please report back?
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2021-05-24 03:35
On the subject of Ridenour clarinets, especially the bass clarinets.... ummmm.... I really don't like them. I've been keeping quiet on the issue because there are so many players here that like them. Plus, I haven't seen many and I'm a repair shop so I only see one's that need work... Plus I may have seen one's made by a factory that he doesn't use anymore. But still, my experience had not been positive... so far.
Steve Ocone
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2021-05-24 07:36
In spite of the "problems" this will cause, such as tone holes being longer and shorter on the different sides than they should be, and possibly a small step between the neck and section, etc. in reality you'd unlikely feel anything wrong if you didn't know about it.
Whenever I align a clarinet on the lathe by the bore, the outside is almost never exactly concentric, but very rarely by an amount that I can actually see. This really sounds like a lot.
Used sold as new sounds like a bigger issue...
>> but in this case the ends should be concentric even if the bore ends up banana-shaped and the outside is dead straight. <<
Not necessarily, it could move at one side and be concentric on one side but not the other. It could also be run out of the part itself, on one or both sides (e.g. a chip got there).
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Author: GoDukes
Date: 2021-05-25 19:21
OK, here is the report! I called Dillon Music yesterday and the gentleman I spoke to was quite reasonable, accepted my explanation that the horn was used, and asked me how I would like to resolve the situation. I said I'd like to return it for a refund. He said fine, we will email you a prepaid shipping label and issue a refund when it is received. Label arrived today. Will give a report on how the refund goes.
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Author: earspasm
Date: 2021-05-25 20:12
FWIW, I have two brand new Kessler Midnight bass clarinets for sale (and trial, if you'd like to swing by Brooklyn — we're just over the VZ bridge).
-mike
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Author: GoDukes
Date: 2021-05-27 21:08
Earspasm - wish I could get up there and try em out. Those Midnights sure do look sleek! I did order one of the Kessler Custom E-flats though, directly from Kessler & Sons, pretty sure they will send me a brand new one. 
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Author: GoDukes
Date: 2021-06-10 04:00
Update! Dillon received the returned bass seven days ago, and issued refund today. (Per their policy it can take up to a week.) The reason for return was never challenged, and the whole return process was pretty smooth. So DougR, go ahead and give them a shot I reckon!
I like the Kessler Custom quite a bit! It plays easier than the college-owned horn (no idea of brand) I used in the 80s. The low G key seems stiff and requires way more finger pressure than I think it should to close; I will call Kessler and ask if there is a way I could possibly adjust it. But I'm thinking the flat spring is best not messed with by amateurs... Also, the horn has the usual intonation issues with open G through pinch B-flat, just gotta work with it. I'm finding it difficult, possibly due to arthritis, to assemble and disassemble the main joints, without placing undue pressure on the long keys. Have thought about either filing down the cork or getting a long case and just leaving them assembled all the time. When I was looking at cases, I came across a great YouTube review of cases by Earspasm! Would there be any issue with leaving those joints together permanently? Can the cork be "filed down"?
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2021-06-10 07:05
First question is... did you use cork grease?
Assuming you did, yes the cork can be sanded to fit. Although rare on plastic instruments, it's a good idea to make sure the problem is the cork and not the joint itself.
If it is the cork, it can be sanded to make it easier to assemble, usually (as long as it still holds firmly enough when you can assemble it relatively easily).
Not sure if you tried a double register bass before, but the G/D key is the one changing between the register keys, so it's somewhat stiffer than other keys. By how much, depends on the exact model, and it's possible that it's stiffer than it has to be. A good(!) repairer can check that and adjust. On some models it doesn't have to be particularly stiff.
Post Edited (2021-06-10 07:06)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2021-06-10 21:00
You run the risk of the tenon corks compressing when leaving the joints assembled, then they harden and won't recover leaving the joints loose once you've taken it apart.
TO make sure you don't damage any keywork, hold the top joint in your left hand palm upwards and wrap your fingers around to close the main action fingerplates AND the throat A key down as that will raise all the linkages between the joints.
Hold the lower joint in your right hand palm downwards with your thumb holding the large pad cups closed as you can't bend any keys that way. Don't hold any of the RH main action fingerplates down as that will raise the linkages between the joints, bending things and putting them out of adjustment.
Keywork on basses is far more bendy than Bb/A soprano clarinets, so make sure you don't put undue pressure on touchpieces or key rods
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: GoDukes
Date: 2021-06-12 03:32
Chris, you are right, the simplest questions are always the best way to start! I did use a lot of cork grease but will try again with more. Thanks for the tips on assembly and letting me know not to leave the joints assembled.
Clarnibass, thanks for the explanation about the G/D key! You're right, this is my first experience with the double register bass.
I love the Clarinet Bboard and truly appreciate everyone who takes the time to share their expertise!
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