 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2017-09-12 01:48
While browsing through Kessler & Sons website, I came upon the AK clarinet ligature. https://www.kesslerandsons.com/ (Scroll down to mid-page)
I did a BB search and came up zero responses.
It appears to be a new, unique design. I've read how it works but the design functionality is a bit difficult for me to understand. (See "About The AK Ligature") https://www.kesslerandsons.com/product/ak-clarinet-ligature-raw/ (Scroll down to mid-page)
IMO, it's rather pricey starting at $150 and going up to $199 for gold plated.
Has anyone tried one of these? If so, I'd like to know your impressions.
Even if you haven't tried one, I would still like to read your opinion of them.
My thanks in advance.
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Author: zhangray4
Date: 2017-09-12 02:28
The ligature is really interesting. But these ligature companies all use the same phrases (allows vibration, does not cover up the sound, centered tone, etc.) and this company is no exception. That being said, I am not saying this ligature will be bad: I'm saying you can't really tell how good it is until you actually try playing it for yourself. Even someone who has played the ligature before will have trouble conveying exactly how it is better, and of course, one man's trash may be one man's treasure.
The only unique bit I see in this ligature is that it says you can change reeds quickly with this ligature. You only need to take a lever to swap the reeds, and you don't need to take off the ligature at all. Sounds convenient, but if that's the only difference, I'm not quite sure it's worth it. Looks somewhat similar to the Vandoren M/O Ligature, except the heel of the reed is covered...
-- Ray Zhang
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2017-09-12 02:54
I've never been able to use ligatures with a relatively large, protruding tension knob directly over the reed because I like to hold the clarinet relatively close to my chest while playing, and the knob annoyingly brushes against my chin. Players who like to hold the clarinet further away from the chest would not find the knob placement a problem. For me to use the AK, it would have to come in an inverse model that puts the knob on the opposite side of the mouthpiece away from the reed.
I don't see any mention of an inverse AK model on the Kessler website. Many today prefer the simplicity and lightness of the Vandoren M/O and M/O hybrid ligatures, and the AK by contrast looks complicated and heavy. But, of course, appearances can be deceiving.
Post Edited (2017-09-12 06:13)
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2017-09-12 17:51
Pretty interesting. Sort of a steampunk aesthetic. Can hear the footsteps of the not-a-cent-over-$50 folks coming. "Raw brass" has a visceral feel to it, like it would work especially well for Copland or Walter Piston. Implies that everyone else's brass is, well, cooked. Wonder if the reference to Kalashnikov is intentional. Never had a lot of luck with the ones with rails or raised points pressing on the reed, but it would be worth a try. There's a Riedel wine glass in the Museum of Modern Art, so why not a ligature?
Post Edited (2017-09-12 19:03)
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Author: Ed
Date: 2017-09-12 18:52
Looks like an interesting concept and certainly well designed and thought out. I would be interested in learning more.
One issue that has been a deal breaker with me on some ligatures is that it needs to remain secure on the instrument when taking off the mouthpiece for clarinet switches or to swab. I would be interested to see how well this manages.
Post Edited (2017-09-13 03:15)
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Author: Ken Lagace
Date: 2018-03-23 06:30
I have one and it is a fairly good reed testing ligature. The ligature clamps very tightly to the mouthpiece and reeds replace fairly easily with the knob. It adjusts so a clamp lever locks the reed in. But, If the reeds are different thicknesses, it has to be re-adjusted for each different thickness. In principal, a good idea and it has some uses. The sound is not that great for me because I use string type ligatures.
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2018-03-23 09:45
I was in Vegas at Kessler's last month and tried one. Super nice folks there. The creator of the ligature is one of the Kessler sons who is also a instrument tech. It's an interesting design and secures the reed very well. I found it very bright for my set up and concept. My thought was that if the contact points were wood instead it might be much better for me. Apparently one of the more famous Backun players really loves it and orders multiples at a time. I fully agree with Ken's comments and also use a string type ligature most of the time. Response was good but not better than my preferred ligature.
Anders
Post Edited (2018-03-23 09:48)
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Author: Caihlen
Date: 2018-03-23 09:57
When you guys say "string type ligature" what exactly are you referring to? I have used and still occasionally use a string ligature. What's a string type ligature?
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Author: Ken Lagace
Date: 2018-03-23 16:14
There are a number of them. I had one,
https://www.wwbw.com/Silverstein-Works-Cryo4-Gold-Ligature-J11588.wwbw?source=TWWR5J1BB&cntry=us¤cy=usd&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9LDviLOC2gIVmo7ICh2mwQD2EAQYBCABEgIEP_D_BwE
But the rubber mounts were not on well and one fell off so I returned it.
The one I use now and like is,
http://www.prowinds.com/category/754
One benefit is that the strings can be wet and keep the reed from drying.
I also recently learned to tie a string ligature and I really like how it plays. I don't use it in performances yet because it takes me a minute or so to tie it. There are some fine players who perform with them so when I am more secure with it I will use it all the time. Meanwhile, the Bambu is a good alternative.
Post Edited (2018-03-23 18:40)
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Author: Jimis4klar
Date: 2020-07-06 00:18
Can anyone compare the AK gen 1 and the AK gen 2 ligatures? Also, has anyone tried both silver and gold? What's their differences in sound?
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Author: Hurstfarm
Date: 2020-07-06 02:48
I'm not generally someone that fusses about ligatures, having found that a shoelace can beat a fair proportion of commercial ligatures in sound quality, if not in convenience! Having the right mouthpiece/reed combination is much more important. That said, the AK ligature impressed me enough to buy one. Having lived with it for nearly a year I recently ordered another, so I now have both the 1st and 2nd generation versions.
The main difference between the two is that the 2G version has a lower profile, as shown here:
https://www.facebook.com/akligature/photos/pb.649362601907826.-2207520000../1325548064289273/?type=3&theater
The new version is sleeker, and perhaps better suited to those who find ligatures sometimes touch their chin, although that's never been an issue for me. The logo has moved from the side of the G1 ligature onto the reed clasp on the G2, and although the sides are narrower in the new version, the mountings for the steel pins are sturdier.
I can't claim to have found any difference in sound quality between the two if set up identically.
I've only tried the gold plated version, so can't comment on any differences in sound between the gold and rhodium plated ligatures. However, I do have a pair of silver plates, which can be easily swapped with the standard brass equivalents without removing the ligature. For me, the silver plates make for a fractionally richer sound, just enough to be detectable in blind testing with another musician in the family, but the difference is tiny and comes with a hefty price tag.
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Author: Jimis4klar
Date: 2020-07-07 18:03
Wow! I didn't expect you to say that! Silver plates make richer sound??? I thought gold touching the reed gives more harmonics than silver...
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Author: Hurstfarm
Date: 2020-07-07 23:23
The choice for the reed plates is brass (which is the standard) or silver. There’s no option with gold touching the reed!
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2020-07-08 01:47
I own the AK ligature in gold. It is the second version. I like it very much but don’t use it regularly. I had an email exchange with the maker regarding the silver plates. I was told that they are not currently making them because the process and the cost is high. I would like a set of silver plates however. If you know anywhere with them let me know.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Hurstfarm
Date: 2020-07-08 19:50
I suspect the only place to get them is direct from Kessler’s. I was in the same boat but they recently produced a batch of the silver plates, and I got an automated email when they were back in stock. At $69/£55 plus international P&P they’re not cheap but as this is now my first choice ligature I thought I’d go for it.
I feel the reviewer on their website overstates it when they describe the silver plates as a “necessity” which adds “much more resonance”. For me at least, it was more a tiny, incremental nudge - but in the right direction!
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Author: Jimis4klar
Date: 2020-07-09 14:02
Hello Peter! I don't know If this is what you ask, I found these Solid Sterling Silver plates:https://www.kesslerandsons.com/product/sterling-plate-kit-ak-clarinet/
I couldn't find Rhodium plates.. There's the complete ligature made from Rhodium with Rhodium plates:https://www.kesslerandsons.com/product/ak-clarinet-ligature-rhodium-plated/
It seems weird to me you don't want to use the 24k gold plates came with the ligature, why???
As I know, gold gives more harmonics and richer sound on reeds, why you want to change them???
Post Edited (2020-07-09 14:05)
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Author: Hurstfarm
Date: 2020-07-09 18:08
The ligature comes with brass plates, not gold. The alternative is silver. There are no rhodium plates.
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Author: Hurstfarm
Date: 2020-07-10 10:32
It’s the ligatures that are plated. The plates that hold the reed are solid brass or solid silver. Seems there‘s been some confusion over “plating” (a surface covering of gold or rhodium on the ligature itself) and “plates” (the metal bits that hold the reed).
The rhodium plated version has been discontinued according to a Facebook posting by the manufacturer:
“We have decided to discontinue all finishes other than 24k Gold Plate for the time being. Silver plating tarnishes too easily (especially on certain hard rubber formulations of mouthpiece).
We had offered Rhodium in the past, but ran into some issues with the Rhodium reacting with solder in the plating process, leading to far too many rejected parts, thus increasing the overall production cost per batch.
So for the time being, and for simplicity's sake, we are only going to offer the 2nd Generation model in 24k Gold.“
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Author: Max S-D
Date: 2020-07-14 05:09
I had the chance to try out the AK ligature at Kessler music in Las Vegas back in December or November of last year. I thought it was a very interesting design and was made beautifully.
I had the chance to talk to Adam Kessler (AK) about them and the process of developing them and making them in his garage. To be fair, though, his garage is probably not like yours or mine. Unless you have a CNC machine, I guess.
He was a very nice and forthcoming guy and I'm sure if anyone has questions he'd be happy to answer them. The price is too high for me, but I understand why they cost what they cost. I obviously have no way of knowing for sure, but I doubt that Adam is getting rich off of these.
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Author: Jimis4klar
Date: 2020-07-25 17:54
Hello, anyone knows information about the white bronze AK ligature? When It'll come out??
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Author: Ed
Date: 2020-12-16 17:15
I happened to notice that Michael Lowenstern made a video about these and now stocks them on his site. He had some very positive things to say about it.
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2020-12-17 03:42
Ken above suggested attributes making it a good ligature for testing reeds.
I don't think he meant it the way I do (?) in the sense that a ligature you can "get on and off fast" to try different reeds might also be a good one for testing reeds.
This is one of the reasons I like the Vandoren offerings with their double threaded screw mechanism, that clamps twice as fast for each turn of the adjustment screw.
I do like, according to the writeup, that they're made using a "stress free assembly method." I can only imagine this includes at least daily meetings by management about how "important Alan Kessler is to the team." But maybe, like Ken's notion of a good reed testing ligature, I got that wrong. ; - )
Two more thoughts.
1) Although funny, I seem to agree that a "right thumb makes a wonderful ligature for a player limiting themselves to left hand notes," I am not sure exactly what difference it makes to the reed whether it's pushed on to the mouthpiece table from below, or pulled there from above by top torqueing mechanisms. I may lack the skill to perceive difference here.
2) Ok, call me stupid. If the goal is to get the tip of the reed to vibrate to its full potential (and maybe it isn't) why isn't clamping the living daylights out of its base the goal; just as (maybe bad analogy) my saw does its best wood cutting when the non-cut end is clamped down?
Post Edited (2020-12-17 03:46)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-12-17 05:55
2) Is an interesting question. The problem with the saw example is that the saw is meant to operate mechanically with the least amount of unwanted jitter.
Even though the reed/mouthpiece system is really only what starts the main vibrating event of the clarinet (the air column within the instrument) it seems that the better the reed/mouthpiece system vibrates, the better the air column vibrates (maybe resonance is a better word).
You can just about take any standard ligature out of the equation (using a CANE reed that is) by NOT clamping down, but rather allowing the ligature to be as loosely secured as possible (literally to the point where the reed can spin off axis with a slight errant bump of the tongue or lips (easy experiment to try and I suggest trying it!).
Then there are plastic reeds. There are many problems associated with them being slippery. Clamping the ligature down is almost a requirement with plastic reeds. For Legere European Signature reeds I have found that plastic ligatures (the old Gigliotti, Luyben or even Robert Vinson) allow for a much greater resonance of the reed/mouthpiece system even clamped down quite firmly. I highly recommend plastic reed users try this out since plastic ligatures are quite the bargain in terms of price and the results are well worth any effort trying this out.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: DaveF
Date: 2022-08-31 04:36
I have been using the AK ligature for the past two years, and I like it for a few reasons:
1. It is secure, and allows me to remove the mpc with the ligature on without much risk of dislodging it.
2. As noted previously, it is nice for testing reeds, leaving the ligature in place and slipping reeds in and out.
3. Response to me seems equal, but not better than all of my other ligatures littering my drawer. However, I’ve not ever tried string ones.
I have the gold ligature, and use the silver plate, noting it seemed to make a slight difference compared to the brass plate that it comes with. Hard to find words to describe this, though. I use it on an old Behn Zinner mpc.
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2022-09-01 17:14
i have yet to find a plastic bass clarinet lig and believe in paul,s theroy. another reason to curse the demise of runyon products as they made a plastic bass lig.
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Author: Hurstfarm
Date: 2022-09-02 01:50
My AK lig has been in heavy use now for well over a year. Recently I found it was getting more difficult to slip reeds in and out quickly. Unless I slackened the tension of the screw fastening slightly, like a standard ligature, they no longer slid through the gap. Tightening the 4 screws holding the ligature together using a tiny Allen key has fixed the problem.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2022-09-03 01:38
Hey Super20dan,
I continue to wade the murky waters of ligatures and I have found two others that respond quite well with Legere and are available as bass clarinet versions.
One would be the Rovner Platinum which not only resonates in a highly uncharacteristic way for a metal ligature, but I also got a very even response with intonation from note to note as described in a Dale Fedele video ("Testing a metric ton of clarinet ligatures"). This is only $57.00 at Weiner Music!
You can pretty much get the full resonant carbon fiber experience with the Eddie Daniels carbon fiber. This is also on Weiner's website and sells for $126.00
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2022-09-03 06:36
thanks paul for the info. i am pretty much commited to using legere on bass. esp the euro cut. i am finding that really good ligs using cane dosnt transfer totally to legere. i bought a vandy optimum and it didnt work as well on legere . was great using cane. really helped articulation but not so much on euro legere. i will continue to experiment as well .
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2024-06-17 11:23
To offer one little speculation about this ligature's design, although it offers its four point anchoring as a virtue, the fact that its pressure plate is rigid means that it would be unable to offer any more support points with the pressure evenly distributed between them. It's essentially a table with four legs, and we all know what tables tend to do if the table top doesn't happen to be made of rubber. Ligature design generally sticks to the importance of the area applying pressure to the stock being supple and adaptive to its slight particularities.
Like I said.... just a speculation....In all other respects I really think this AK looks like a nice piece of engineering.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Jimis4klar
Date: 2024-06-18 15:52
The way It attaches the reed and the fact that reed changing would be super fast are the features I may would get one. Though how about Its durability overtime?
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2024-06-18 16:10
Sorry Jimis,
I shouldn't have distracted from your question.
It looks like a very nice bit of engineering design and not a bad price all things considered. My guess is that it will work well mechanically for a very long time indeed. No doubt a touch of oil on the lever hinging will help with that.
Michael Lowenstern loves this ligature.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Jimis4klar
Date: 2024-06-18 16:30
No problem.
I just had a Bonade from RDG Woodwinds which screws got not working recently and currently can't be using It. I had It since 4 years ago but were not using it exclusively. Probably screws were needing some oil and I didn't consider that. It was expensive for me including shipping and customs and still is the same If I buy new one. So maybe this time will consider the AK ligature which is little more expensive but with interesting features, though I believe Bonades are generally more resonant ligatures.
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2024-06-18 19:03
Are the screws on the Bonade frozen or are the threads stripped...or what exactly is the problem? Four years old is still basically new!!
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Hurstfarm
Date: 2024-06-18 19:21
My AK ligature is still in daily use nearly 5 years on, with no issues apart from some slight cosmetic issues where moisture has wicked into the plastic tubes that protect the mouthpiece against surface scratches.
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Author: Jimis4klar
Date: 2024-06-18 23:06
Something happened to the screws. Threads seem to be fine as they can take other screws, though ligature change how It plays when using other screws. I'm not sure why it happened, Maybe screws needing some oil at times? Maybe I was overtightening a little? Those are the factors I can think of. And the thing is I wasn't using it exclusively since I got it.
Post Edited (2024-06-18 23:09)
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Author: Jimis4klar
Date: 2024-06-18 23:27
Hurstfarm, would you recommend the gold or the bronze silver AK ligature? Plus silver plated plates or stock brass plates are fine? I generally find gold plated ligatures to be heavy in response for me. Other than the Bonade which was quite heavy being in gold and non inverted, I have gold BG duo and BG Tradition in gold and one in silver plated. Although they're lightweight design, I still prefer the silver plated Tradition. In AK ligature though, design seems even more lightweight, so gold could work for me?
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2024-06-18 23:41
Brass is very much softer than steel making it easier to miscalculate how much torque one can safety applying to the threads. It's probably just as well you can't get replacement screws from the manufacturer, because half the thread damage is almost certainly in the female part of the thread on the ligature itself.
( I just read your other thread about the problem).
Enjoy a new AK ..... and don't over tighten.
Good luck. J
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Jimis4klar
Date: 2024-06-18 23:45
Thanks. I'm thinking of getting the AK so tightening will be in fixed position every time when lever goes down and not ever think about how much should I tighten.
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Author: Hurstfarm
Date: 2024-06-19 19:47
Regarding the options, I have one gold plated and a bronze silver. Using the same reed and magnetic plate for each, I struggle to feel or hear any difference between them so, for me at least, the difference is purely cosmetic.
I did buy a pair of the (solid) silver plates. I think they support a slightly richer sound, but in all honesty it's the tiniest of changes, noticeable to me, but not to my musician wife in blind testing. On that basis they’re probably not worth the quite hefty cost - although naturally I use them all the time!
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Author: Jimis4klar
Date: 2024-06-19 22:31
Thanks for the feedback. Does silver plate add little more resistance and brightness to the sound? As for stock ligatures, I asked Dawkes music and told me gold one may have brighter sound but not big difference. For reference, I have BG Tradition silver and gold and difference in feeling is quite noticeable. I prefer the silver as gold is a little too much resistant for me. I suspect AK ligatures sharing the same plates is the reason for the smaller differences?
Post Edited (2024-06-19 22:37)
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Author: Jimis4klar
Date: 2024-06-20 19:28
Did silver plate get tarnished since you're leaving It attached on the ligature with the mouthpiece?(I suppose)
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Author: Hurstfarm
Date: 2024-06-21 02:22
So, in an attempt to respond I’ve tried a back to back comparison of the gold and white bronze plated ligatures, with the stock brass reed plates and with the solid silver ones. It confirmed my memory of when I did the same before, although this time with a Legere French Cut Reed rather than cane. And to anticipate another question, yes, the AK holds them securely!
In short, for me there was no discernible difference in sound between the two ligatures. My gold plated one is marginally more responsive, but my sense is that the reason could be mechanical rather than specifically linked to the plating, as the white bronze has always felt stiffer in operation
The silver reed plates I feel give a fractionally richer sound, presumably due to a slight shift in harmonics, but it’s a tiny difference. Yes, they tarnish, but if it bothers you, a quick dunking in silver dip would fix it.
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Author: Jimis4klar
Date: 2024-06-21 06:37
Thanks for the confirmation testing! So If I'd get one would be the gold I guess.
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