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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2018-04-28 19:28
jdbassplayer wrote:
> Johan H Nilsson wrote:
>
> > Oil can be the direct cause of cracking. Just take a
> ringless
> > bell and oil the smaller end and keep the wide end dry.
> There
> > will be tension in the wood and chances are high the bell
> will
> > crack.
> >
>
> Not necessarily, humidity causes wood to expand far more
> rapidly and to a much greater degree than oil does. The oil
> will have already been absorbed completely into the wood before
> any significant stress is seen.
>
Is this all (both Johan's and JD's points) theoretical conjecture, or is it based on direct experience?
> If you don't believe me here's an interesting experiment you
> can try. Find an old barrel or bell where the rings are
> severely loose. Find a ziplock bag and place the bell or barrel
> inside. Then take a paper towel, fold it into a square, dampen
> it with hot water, and place it in the bag. Wait a day or two.
> The rings should now be tight.
>
You don't need hot water or, really, a Ziplock. This is the way Dampits, orange peels and humidifiers work simply left in the closed clarinet case - often the loose rings tighten overnight.
> For the second part of the experiment leave the bell or barrel
> out of the bag for a few days. The wood should shrink back to
> its original size.
Maybe, but when I've put Dampits or orange peels in the case overnight to correct loose rings, the rings tend to remain tight indefinitely.
> Now you can try oiling it. Even after
> letting the oil soak for a few days the rings should still be
> loose. The wood expands a small amount but not nearly as much
> as it would in fully saturated air.
>
Is there a way to measure this expansion?
But now you're back to the question of how much oil is actually absorbed into the wood and how long would it take for a really significant amount to penetrate, even assuming that it penetrates at all.
> Oil is important because it reduces the amount of water wood
> can absorb, and for that reason alone it should be helpful in
> reducing cracks.
>
And, again, is this conjectural or empirically verifiable? If the moisture absorbed from a Dampit, etc., restores the wood's dimensions - if loss of moisture rather than of oil causes dimensional changes, why would reducing the amount of water wood can absorb be helpful?
Much of the discussion about oiling takes for granted that dry wood needs oil and that oil adds something strongly beneficial that water does not. Or, as you've implied, that allowing the wood to absorb water from the surrounding air can actually increase the likelihood of cracks. This mostly makes Lowenstern's approach to evaluating the use of bore oil irrelevant. Whether or not it penetrates the wood, is it doing any good?
I don't find any of the benefits described here to be intuitive. Oiling simply becomes an article of faith, something that can't be rationally argued. You either accept its value or you don't based, not on what's demonstrable, but on the strength of others' beliefs and the threat of what may happen if you don't believe.
Karl
Post Edited (2018-04-28 21:18)
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GBK |
2018-04-25 11:02 |
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Speculator Sam |
2018-04-25 11:12 |
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donald |
2018-04-25 12:30 |
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Caroline Smale |
2018-04-25 22:10 |
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jdbassplayer |
2018-04-25 23:05 |
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John Peacock |
2018-04-26 00:04 |
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Fuzzy |
2018-04-26 01:01 |
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The Doctor |
2018-04-26 02:19 |
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The Doctor |
2018-04-26 02:30 |
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DavidBlumberg |
2018-04-27 00:22 |
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The Doctor |
2018-04-27 04:34 |
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Fishamble |
2018-04-27 10:47 |
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donald |
2018-04-27 11:29 |
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Dibbs |
2018-04-27 17:17 |
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kdk |
2018-04-27 19:29 |
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Tony F |
2018-04-27 20:07 |
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QuickStart Clarinet |
2018-09-26 18:30 |
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Johan H Nilsson |
2018-04-27 22:00 |
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The Doctor |
2018-04-28 00:21 |
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Caroline Smale |
2018-04-28 04:00 |
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Johan H Nilsson |
2018-04-28 17:05 |
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jdbassplayer |
2018-04-28 17:37 |
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Re: Michael Lowenstern's bore oil experiment new |
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kdk |
2018-04-28 19:28 |
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Caihlen |
2018-04-28 20:15 |
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Johan H Nilsson |
2018-04-28 23:47 |
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Johan H Nilsson |
2018-04-29 00:00 |
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The Doctor |
2018-05-03 06:21 |
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Klose |
2018-05-03 09:02 |
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Late_returner |
2018-05-03 13:18 |
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Dibbs |
2018-05-03 14:27 |
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kdk |
2018-05-03 23:18 |
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Caroline Smale |
2018-05-04 00:33 |
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The Doctor |
2018-05-04 04:31 |
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bbillings |
2018-09-11 19:42 |
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Klose |
2018-05-04 09:38 |
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Johan H Nilsson |
2018-05-05 00:08 |
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The Doctor |
2018-05-06 02:47 |
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The Doctor |
2018-05-06 04:42 |
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Klose |
2018-05-06 03:54 |
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Caihlen |
2018-05-06 04:32 |
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Klose |
2018-05-06 04:35 |
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Klose |
2018-05-06 06:14 |
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Klose |
2018-05-06 06:55 |
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Klose |
2018-05-06 07:17 |
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Tony F |
2018-05-06 08:28 |
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Klose |
2018-05-06 08:39 |
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Johan H Nilsson |
2018-05-06 14:49 |
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Klose |
2018-05-06 19:11 |
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Johan H Nilsson |
2018-05-06 19:26 |
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Johan H Nilsson |
2018-05-06 19:32 |
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Klose |
2018-05-06 19:41 |
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Klose |
2018-05-06 23:10 |
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The Doctor |
2018-05-07 03:36 |
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Johan H Nilsson |
2018-05-06 20:26 |
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Bennett |
2018-05-06 20:54 |
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The Doctor |
2018-05-06 22:01 |
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Klose |
2018-05-07 04:11 |
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The Doctor |
2018-05-07 05:13 |
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Caihlen |
2018-05-07 05:21 |
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Klose |
2018-05-07 05:43 |
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Tony Pay |
2018-05-07 14:04 |
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Klose |
2018-05-07 15:58 |
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donald |
2018-05-07 14:20 |
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Tony Pay |
2018-05-07 16:19 |
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Klose |
2018-05-07 16:24 |
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Tony Pay |
2018-05-07 16:29 |
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Johan H Nilsson |
2018-05-07 22:29 |
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shmuelyosef |
2018-06-04 07:38 |
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Johan H Nilsson |
2018-06-06 00:11 |
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clarnibass |
2018-06-06 10:26 |
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Paul Aviles |
2018-09-11 21:08 |
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bbillings |
2018-09-11 22:17 |
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Johan H Nilsson |
2018-09-11 23:32 |
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bbillings |
2018-09-11 23:39 |
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Johan H Nilsson |
2018-09-12 02:32 |
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bbillings |
2018-09-12 04:01 |
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Johan H Nilsson |
2018-09-12 22:57 |
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shmuelyosef |
2018-09-12 02:37 |
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bbillings |
2018-09-12 04:22 |
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bbillings |
2018-09-13 20:09 |
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Johan H Nilsson |
2018-09-14 02:29 |
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shmuelyosef |
2018-09-15 06:14 |
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Johan H Nilsson |
2018-09-17 23:26 |
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bbillings |
2018-09-18 19:52 |
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Tony F |
2018-09-18 21:11 |
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Johan H Nilsson |
2018-09-19 00:27 |
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John G. |
2018-09-20 08:39 |
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shmuelyosef |
2018-09-21 01:12 |
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Caroline Smale |
2018-09-22 02:25 |
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Johan H Nilsson |
2018-09-27 00:17 |
The Clarinet BBoard
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