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 Re: My hatred of some Youtube Master Classes
Author: Tony Pay 2017
Date:   2016-02-11 15:38

I think that the problem with this sort of discussion lies in the background assumptions we bring to the table. For example, I would agree with you that the second bar can be thought of as in a sense more emphasised. But how I would put that is to say that you can have the hypermetre turn out to be the opposite of what we might expect, due to the suddenly faster harmonic movement and the appoggiatura that you point out.

That way of putting it doesn't undercut the idea that the first bar has its own metric structure, and the second bar its own metric structure. (And, notice, you can get most of what you wanted without establishing ANY hierarchy between the bars:-)

However, many people have the natural inclination to translate the hypermetre statement into their own language, and it gets transformed into the notion that there is a CRESCENDO through the first bar to the beginning of the second. They then often even write in that crescendo, thus subverting the style and incidentally making what are two subtly differing one-bar phrases into one two-bar phrase (cf. the first two bars of the Allegro of K361).

I now find it interesting to remember that as a young player – around 11 or 12, I suppose – I was worried by the repeated A over the barline. It seemed to me to be unnatural to stop the first one; yet, how was I to show the second unless I did make some sort of break? And the problem seemed even worse with the repeated C two bars later.

What was tying me in knots, of course, was the crescendo. If the end of the first A is light, it becomes easy to show the second without making a gap.

A big difficulty of getting this across to a student is that when you remove their first bar crescendo, their playing becomes lifeless. They haven't the technique to allow their sound to become smaller without losing centre. You can say, "the sound becomes more compressed, rather than quieter", or something similar: but the more detailed the description becomes, the farther away they get from the simplicity that is required.

If we were to instil early the notion that, in this music, bars have some sort of structure and integrity, are mostly beginning-oriented and normally to be read as such, then I think students would have a much easier time of it.

Tabuteau, Bonade et al have much to answer for, in my view.

Tony



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 Topics Author  Date
 My hatred of some Youtube Master Classes  new
WhitePlainsDave 2016-02-10 08:02 
 Re: My hatred of some Youtube Master Classes  new
GBK 2016-02-10 08:15 
 Re: My hatred of some Youtube Master Classes  new
WhitePlainsDave 2016-02-10 08:16 
 Re: My hatred of some Youtube Master Classes  new
donald 2016-02-10 08:23 
 Re: My hatred of some Youtube Master Classes  new
tylerleecutts 2016-02-10 10:38 
 Re: My hatred of some Youtube Master Classes  new
donald 2016-02-10 14:52 
 Re: My hatred of some Youtube Master Classes  new
Bob Bernardo 2016-02-10 15:01 
 Re: My hatred of some Youtube Master Classes  new
Ed 2016-02-10 20:53 
 Re: My hatred of some Youtube Master Classes  new
WhitePlainsDave 2016-02-10 21:33 
 Re: My hatred of some Youtube Master Classes  new
WhitePlainsDave 2016-02-10 22:08 
 Re: My hatred of some Youtube Master Classes  new
donald 2016-02-11 02:00 
 Re: My hatred of some Youtube Master Classes  new
Tony Pay 2016-02-11 03:08 
 Re: My hatred of some Youtube Master Classes  new
gwie 2016-02-11 10:02 
 Re: My hatred of some Youtube Master Classes  new
Liquorice 2016-02-11 10:48 
 Re: My hatred of some Youtube Master Classes  new
Tony Pay 2016-02-11 15:38 
 Re: My hatred of some Youtube Master Classes  new
Ed 2016-02-11 17:19 
 Re: My hatred of some Youtube Master Classes  new
seabreeze 2016-02-11 17:34 
 Re: My hatred of some Youtube Master Classes  new
MartyMagnini 2016-02-11 18:58 
 Re: My hatred of some Youtube Master Classes  new
brycon 2016-02-11 22:32 
 Re: My hatred of some Youtube Master Classes  new
Tony Pay 2016-02-12 01:03 
 Re: My hatred of some Youtube Master Classes  new
Tony Pay 2016-02-12 01:12 
 Re: My hatred of some Youtube Master Classes  new
WhitePlainsDave 2016-02-12 02:11 
 Re: My hatred of some Youtube Master Classes  new
Liquorice 2016-02-12 02:28 
 Re: My hatred of some Youtube Master Classes  new
brycon 2016-02-12 23:10 
 Re: My hatred of some Youtube Master Classes  new
Liquorice 2016-02-12 23:31 
 Re: My hatred of some Youtube Master Classes  new
ned 2016-02-13 03:57 
 Re: My hatred of some Youtube Master Classes  new
SarahC 2016-02-14 15:16 
 Re: My hatred of some Youtube Master Classes  new
TomS 2016-02-14 19:05 


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