 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: nata
Date: 2015-02-26 02:29
Hello all!
I am finally buying a new clarinet- the one made by Tom Ridenour.
(Specifically, the Lyrique Bb Custom RCP-576bc Model).
There is an option of buying one of his mouthpieces as well... and I have a Vandoreen M15 Profile 88 that works beautifully so far.
My question: should I buy one of his mouthpieces because they are better or should I buy one regardless of whether I like it or not?
How do his mouthpieces stack up against mine?
If it is recommended that I buy one of his mouthpieces, which ones should I look into?
I am taking this question to the pros because they have the most experience.
Thank you in advance.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2015-02-26 03:09
nata wrote:
>
> My question: should I buy one of his mouthpieces because they
> are better or should I buy one regardless of whether I like it
> or not?
>
You should buy a mouthpiece if you think it's an improvement over what you already have. That said, do you have an opportunity to try the Ridenour mouthpiece before you buy it, or is there a no-cost return policy if you decide not to keep it? You'll have no idea which you like better unless you try the Ridenour to make the comparison.
Does he not include a mouthpiece with the clarinet when you buy it?
Karl
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Author: nata
Date: 2015-02-26 03:47
http://www.ridenourclarinetproducts.com/Bbclarpg.html
Read the part about the mouthpieces below....
I can buy the mouthpiece and then send it back, but I will have to pay the shipping then....
He does not include a mouthpiece with the clarinet.
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Author: AAAClarinet
Date: 2015-02-26 03:56
The mouthpieces are discounted when purchased with a clarinet.
I want very much to get to try some of Tom's mouthpieces.
AAAClarinet
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-02-26 03:58
The M15 is an excellent mouthpiece as manufactured non-handmade boutique mouthpiece makers (not Behn, Fobes, etc.) go.
That sounded condescending towards the M15. Rephrase: the M15 is a great mouthpiece period, IMHO.
Also IMHO, I would hold off on getting one of Tom's mouthpieces right now if you have no particular issue with the M15, unless you were already dying to get one his mouthpieces anyway, and the combined offer of clarinet and mouthpiece is too good to pass up. This is not to take stabs at Tom's mouthpiece making ability...I'd love to try (before I'd buy) his Harold Wright model just for kicks sometime. Rather, this goes to the question of what, if anything, do you feel is lacking in your M15 that would lead you to try another [maker's] brand and or model?
Some say Ridenour clarinets don't blow as freely as what they are use to. Of course this depends upon what you're coming from. Again, this is not denegration of Tom's wares, but rather part of his design philosophy of a clarinet holding pitch, color and shape of tone. But sometimes players like a slightly more open mouthpiece on his wares to compensate for this perceived added resistance. Only you can determine if you concur with this feeling on the RCP horn: which I wish you well on and think you will not regret getting (i.e. love)--best clarinets for the dollar IMHO.
I am by no means implying you need the lungs of a deep sea SCUBAless diver. I own a Ridenour clarinet and love its sound (and I would say so if I didn't like it. I also own Buffet.)
(Disclaimer: The M15 is my predominate mouthpiece..to the extent that my advice may be biased. But I play many different mouthpieces, and would be fine to tell people of all the junk I've bought too. In other words I don't rave for products I own just to post-justify my spending to myself.)
"If it is recommended that I buy one of his mouthpieces, which ones should I look into?"
Let me take this approach.
The M15 is a http://www.vandoren-en.com/file/162130/
1.035mm tipped mouthpiece on a long facing. (Vandoren uses European notation, where the decimal point character is a comma. See bottom half of link.)
While MANY attributes determine how a mouthpiece plays (width and length of rails, materials of composition, YOU, curvature of rails, etc.) and can even work against each other (e.g. long rails counteracting a larger tip opening all other things equal), and a "long" facing, as this mouthpiece is, is a less than exact measurement......
the question becomes whether you are looking for a mouthpiece with similar qualities to the M15, assuming you're even in the market for a new mouthpiece.
Smart people may make cogent arguments that defend or refute some of the above on mouthpiece attributes.
(Use the search function at the top of this page to research what constitues small, medium and long facings.)
As you many know, the M15 is on the smaller range of tip openings, and, I think, a very good mouthpiece for all levels of players if not genres. Some believe wider tip opening mouthpieces are best left to jazz--if that's where you "cut your teeth" on the instrument.
Larger tip opening mouthpieces tend to use weaker strength reeds, and can allow players more flexibility, including enough flexibility for beginner players to "shoot themselves in the foot."
(I am "painting" with very broad strokes here, talking of mouthpieces. French classical players sometimes play B40s--an open mouthpiece, and I'll bet many jazz players a closed tip one.)
Another reason many of us might not suggest a new mouthpiece at this time is the "only change one aspect of your setup" at a time philosphy. No different than a scientist changes only 1 variable in a controlled experiment, smart clarinetists, I think, do this too so they can best assign change to the right cause.
(Of course there are exceptions to this rule. Buy a Vandoren Masters mouthpiece and if insist on playing a metal ligature, and you'll have to change ligatures (long story.) But ligature changes, for all some people assign to them, aren't near as influential as mouthpiece changes.)
This said, let's look at Tom's wares in case I haven't convinced you to hold off on getting another mouthpiece.
http://www.ridenourclarinetproducts.com/mouthpieces.htm
IMHO, Tom's midrange mouthpieces are not a marketplace you should be in, coming from an M15. Again--Tom makes great valued stuff, but I'd wager your M15 might already be better, and certainly, "the price is right," when making no purchase. Others who've used these mouthpieces may be able to speak to this far more adeptly than I can. I have not used any Ridenour mouthpieces, and wish to make that known.
As for his higher end wares go, Tom only publishers specs, from what I can see, on his RA and RZ models. (Other posters may know much more than I do about his Eroica and Wright model specs--and you can always ask Tom or Ted, or search the bboard for that information.)
From what I can extrapolate--and I admit this not precise, I'd guess your M15 falls somewhere between the 2, closer to the RA.
My desire to try the HW model is for giggles. I say this because I loved Harold Wright's sound, and would "get to fool myself for 2 seconds" that using a mouthpiece similar to his will make me sound like him, all the time knowing clear well that it's the player, first and foremost, who makes the sound that the mouthpiece only facilitates.
The paradox here is that to buy a mouthpiece with similar facing to your M15 might beg the question, "why are you switching mouthpieces," not that similar attribute mouthpieces of different makers can't play drastically different to the same player.
(More disclaimers. I preach that "gear doesn't make the clarinetist anywhere near the extent that etude books and metronomes do." While this may be true, I may also be biased by this philosophy. I am not gear-centric.)
What do YOU feel might be lacking in your M15 if anything? Our answers may vary, but if someone asked me that question I'd be most likely to answer "me."
Post Edited (2015-02-26 04:01)
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Author: nata
Date: 2015-02-26 04:10
Many thanks for your informative replies!
I was just wondering if it is recommended for me to get one of his professional mouthpieces (while the discount with buying the clarinet is available) or not.
I love my M15.... and it is super so far... I am playing on a horrible plastic clarinet now, but my chalemau and clarion sound so much darker due to it!!
So if I have no particular problem with the M15... then I should not buy the professional mouthpiece he offers... I just don't want to look back on this unique opportunity (if I ever do) and regret that I did not buy it.
I am convinced by you to keep my M15 and play it....
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Author: nbclarinet
Date: 2015-02-26 04:30
I agree with the comments above. I consider the M15 to be one of Vandorens best mouthpieces, and Vandoren's mouthpieces are good in general. While I'm sure that ridenour mouthpieces are excellent as well, if you love your M15 and have no issue with it, there is no need to change.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2015-02-26 04:56
To be clear, it isn't a question of a "professional" Ridenour vs. a "non-professional?" M15. There are pro players who use Vandoren mouthpieces, including the M15, in professional orchestral settings. Whether or not the M15 is my cup of tea (or any other individual player's) doesn't diminish its appeal to players at all levels of competence. Tom's mouthpieces have characteristics (or at least they did when I last tried them) that also appeal to some players and not to others.
The consensus, which I agree with, seems to be that if you like your M15, stick with it for now. But if you're curious (which I probably would be under the same circumstances), the return postage for a flat-rate Priority Mail box is a little under $7, as I remember. So it won't cost much to try it and be sure which you prefer. You'll end up with a good mouthpiece either way.
Karl
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2015-02-26 04:57
All very good input so far. I recently bought a pair of Ridenour instruments and decided not to get a mouthpiece sent with them because I really like my custom Bay mouthpiece that I've been playing on for the last couple decades.
I was open to the fact that I might want another mouthpiece to match the profile of the Ridenour instruments, knowing how different they were going to be from my Buffet, but decided to get to really know the new instruments first. I'm happy to discover that my Bay mouthpiece works really well with the Ridenour instruments. I will try others when the opportunity arises, but I'm not in a hurry. It ain't broken, so I'm not going to go chasing a fix.
If I hadn't been really happy with my current mouthpiece before I might have gone ahead and ordered the Ridenour mouthpiece as well. 'Change one thing at a time' is still a very good general rule though.
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Author: ClaV
Date: 2015-02-26 05:05
One factor to consider: changing mouthpiece (or even trying) would more than often require going through reed adjustments (or finding different reeds altogether).
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Author: Tom Ridenour
Date: 2015-02-26 08:48
For the record Tom agrees 100% with the advice given; if your happy with the M15 keep using it. One variable at a time.
Ted Ridenour
Ridenour Clarinet Products,
rclarinetproducts.com
sales@ridenourclarinetproducts.com
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-02-26 08:52
Tom has the Harold Wright, which I think has about a 1.10 mm tip opening. and then two facings in his other pro MPs models. I don't know the specs, but I suspect they are closer than the HW.
I have a couple of RE-10s which have a big, nice dark sound and are very responsive despite the darkness. Very smooth resistance and note to note consistency.
I've played one of his pro models that I borrowed for a brief while and it was very good ... covered, warm, great response. I should have bought one with the last two clarinets I purchased from him. I am planning on adding a 576, so I might acquire one then ...
He doesn't use the popular Zinner blanks, usually. I think Ted told me that whatever blank he uses seems to have a better sound and response in the high register ...
But, I you like your M15, why change? I mostly play an M13 (not lyre) with Legere reeds, and while I really like Tom's stuff, inertia just keeps me going on the Vandoren, which seems to work a little better with the synthetics.
Tom
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Author: nata
Date: 2015-02-28 02:58
Many thanks to everyone for the advice!
It cleared up some questions I have been having.
I am probably sticking with the M15.
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2015-02-28 19:39
I agree with what's been already said: Get the clarinet first, and then change the mouthpiece only if you need to.
The resistance and response characteristics of the 576BC may be quite different than those of the clarinet you're playing now--changing mouthpieces at the same time could make for a longer transition period. Make it easy on yourself and change just one thing at a time.
Best wishes for a long and beautiful relationship with your new 576BC! There is a lot to love about Tom's creations.
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Author: nata
Date: 2015-03-01 05:06
Let's hope the relationship does not break up. :-)
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2022-05-27 02:31
Reviving this old thread --- I have a Ridenour Lyrique 576 I bought a few years ago new. I'm not "a clarinetist" but am a competent wind player. I didn't, at the time, like the included "pro" mouthpiece and got a Fobes Debut, which I found easier for me to play on and get a good sound. However -- on that, I am 20 cents flat across the board (yes, shorter barrel.) I ended up with a Legere 2 3/4 which I was told today is a "soft" reed.
I basically gave up trying a couple years ago, but have the opportunity to play in a WW5T this summer and am looking again. I went to a friend's house and we tested combinations, and my flatness is due to the Fobes, apparently. I was up to pitch on whatever my friend had, BUT had great difficulty getting air through the instrument.
I'd like to get something "very middle of the road" that isn't going to restrict the air, doesn't require pro chops (I have good brass chops, but -- ) and doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Suggestions?
And thank you.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2022-05-27 04:10
Much like a similar thread right now, I’d suggest just finding a barrel 2mm shorter. A mouthpiece that WORKS need not be replaced.
Also Legere tend to play flatter (not as “forgiving” as cane).
………..Paul Aviles
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2022-05-27 05:31
Question: Are you using Euro Cut (or Signature Soprano Sax) reeds?
Those are the best sounding ones.
………….Paul Aviles
Post Edited (2022-05-27 08:53)
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2022-06-07 02:56
After some testing with a friend: it is the mouthpiece. He is also flat on his instrument using my Fobes Debut. Did I get a bad one? It is such a popular mouthpiece and I am not in a position to start spending hundreds of dollars on things just to try to fix this problem. I'm more inclined to find someone who can shorten the mouthpiece so it goes in farther, than I am to get another barrel. Seems like someone with a lathe could fix it in pretty short order, pun intended.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2022-06-07 03:34
The Debut is usually well in tune in my experience. A slightly stiffer reed might help.
Wes Rice can shorten a mouthpiece for you
https://www.clarinetworks.com
although the cost of shortening a Debut would likely not be worth it.
You could also consider a Vandoren, but I would probably avoid the 13 series, which tends to be a little flat for many. If you like the Debut, Clark's Nova mouthpiece is quite good if you want an upgrade. You might contact him to discuss your issues and see what he thinks.
Post Edited (2022-06-07 03:40)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2022-06-07 16:17
Signature cut? If you mean Signature Bb Clarinet Legere, then you’ll be blown away by the performance of the Euro Cut OR the Signature Soprano Sax reeds. Both are far superior to those designated as Signature Bb Clarinet reeds.
Also….. don’t mess with the acoustic of the mouthpiece. You’ll be sorry. Shorter barrel!!!!!
……….Paul Aviles
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2022-06-07 23:03
I'm using a Signature soprano sax reed, but it is soft at 2 3/4. I ordered a 3.5 which has yet to arrive but I doubt I have the chops for that on clarinet. I think I had a stiffer reed and gave it away because I didn't have the chops for it. Won't in the future either because at 73 I'm not going to practice three hours a day.
So, I'm subbing for the clarinet in a woodwind quintet on Thursday, had hoped to just do this simple stuff on my 576, but not when I'm 20 cents flat. So I'm going to play violin on the clarinet part, and I'll just wait for the "but clarinet is a transposing instrument, didn't you know that?" queries.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2022-06-08 00:17
Ok, good reed choice. Though I think the jump up three different quarter strengths is too much in one go (again, NOT cane)......unless you are already pretty familiar with the #3 and the #3.25 strengths. I had used Amazon's return policy early on to go through reed strengths myself. It took me several weeks per strength to either rule out (starts to "collapse," loose usable strength after a few hours) or confirm strength. That period was quite stressful but highly useful (I've kept enough different strengths in the Euro and Soprano Sax versions to move by quarter strengths when I try other mouthpieces or encounter barometric/humidity changes in the weather that require adaptation).
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: Ed
Date: 2022-06-08 02:09
Quote:
"but clarinet is a transposing instrument, didn't you know that?"
Just tune the violin to Bb, LOL
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