 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2015-01-27 03:07
I had a chance to try their new professional Boehm model, the Superior, at NAMM over the weekend and found that it really lived up to its name. I wished I'd had more time and a better environment in which to put it through its paces, but I was very impressed with the response, sound, and intonation. The quality of the wood and precision of the action were both excellent, and the workmanship appeared solid. The quality, shape, and stability of the tone, as well as the precise and effortless responsiveness in every register are what stood out the most to me.
Anybody else have a chance to check these out? They are currently looking for distribution here in America.
http://uebel-klarinetten.de/english/clarinet-Bb-Superior.html
Anders
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-01-27 03:35
How closely linked are Uebel to Buffet?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Pastor Rob
Date: 2015-01-27 04:15
Tried one a couple weeks ago here in Seoul. Our ensemble director brought a couple along. Played it about ten minutes and sure did enjoy it! The thing that stuck out to me was how easy it was to play in the altissimo range.
Pastor Rob Oetman
Leblanc LL (today)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-01-27 07:45
My experience is here in Madison AL with one of the 'early' dealers to catch on to this brand. Also note the complete line come standard with leather pads and silver plating (the last two models being VERY heavily plated.......far more than any brand marketed in the States - this helps those of us with a high content of acid in our sweat).
So far my personal favorite is their "Preference" model. It has a bit more liveliness to the sound. Odd that they do not make an 'A' clarinet in the "Preference."
I will be auditioning their Oehler system clarinet shortly.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2015-01-27 08:35
Uebel and Buffet are not linked at all, as far as I know. I do know that I liked Uebel's Superior better than any of the Buffets at the show, and I've played Buffets almost exclusively for decades. I think that's about to change though....
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2015-01-27 19:06
what Chris might be hinting at is that the Uebel Emperior Bass is a nearly identical twin of the Buffet 1193, both keywork and tone wise (I sat my 2nd season next to an 1193 player and both instruments were nearly indistibguishable except that the Buffet keywork felt a bit less stiff (or crisp, depending on how you look at it), probably due to age and personal preferences).
Maybe Uebel licensed something, or both companies get their keys from a common source? We'll probably never know...
--
Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-01-27 19:42
I'm wondering if they have ties as the keywork on their Boehm systems is identical to Buffet's keywork, so maybe they have ties somewhere along the line and that will also keep the overall cost down as key making is one of the most costly operations, so if there's an agreement between the two companies, then that's not a bad thing.
And their Emperior bass comes in at just under the cost of a Yamaha low C bass, so that's always a positive thing for anyone wanting a reputable low C bass with well balanced keywork just like the Buffet Prestige bass, but without the pricetag.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2015-01-29 09:32
It was fun to read your reviews, Cocobolo. Thanks for sharing.
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one so enthused by the Uebels. I'm also finding them 'hard to forget'. I have a brand new Ridenour Libertas showing up tomorrow, so we'll see how that goes. I'm excited to be shopping for new instruments. The last time I bought a professional model for myself, I was still in high school - and big hair was still fashionable. 
Anders
Post Edited (2015-01-29 09:47)
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Author: CocoboloKid
Date: 2015-01-29 10:04
They are pretty hard to forget once you've played them, I agree!
Let us know how you like your Libertas! That is the primary clarinet that I use to make my living, and I adore it. (Though I wouldn't mind having a pair of Superiors and an Emperior bass to go along with my Lyrique low C ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif) )
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-01-29 10:08
Hey Cocobolokid,
I could not help noticing that you did not mention the Uebel "Preference." This one is plays with more upper partials and a bit more liveliness. Was this instrument at NAMM?
..........Paul Aviles
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Author: CocoboloKid
Date: 2015-01-29 10:32
Hi Paul,
I wasn't at NAMM this year, I played them at ClarinetFest in Baton Rouge back in August. I played the Preference, too, and it's a very, very good instrument, if perhaps a bit too Buffet-like for me (sound-wise). Once I played the Superior, though, I forgot all about it!
That said, I would very much consider playing the Preference (with the left Eb added). I like that there is a pair of Superiors in Bb and A, though. I also preferred the sound of the Superior...much more Germanic, which is more my style.
If pressed, though, I'd even play the Classic if I had to. They are all pretty formidable instruments! I am particularly fond of the heaviness of the silver plating they use...I am death to all metals but gold and the platinum-family elements, so this is a boon for me. (you should SEE what I've done to the nickel on my current horn, the poor thing.)
Post Edited (2015-01-29 21:12)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-01-29 15:49
I feel your pain. I must add that even though I was very anal retentive about wiping off the keys after playing my Wurlitzers, they too had a very heavy key plate and I attribute that to the fact I never had any corrosive issues at all in 13 yeas of use.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2015-01-29 23:22
Y'all can have your new Uebels. I really like my old ones (1950s-70s vintage).
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Author: Paula S
Date: 2015-01-29 23:43
Does anyone know what bore size these are. I have 811s from the late/70s early 80s and the bore seems quite narrow. The sound is really sweet though and they have an effortless altissimo. The keywork is really compact and ergonomic. Everyone who tried them was really impressed with them when I bought them. They do seem quite confining though compared to my 1010s and my Eatons.
Post Edited (2015-01-29 23:53)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-01-29 23:54
Interesting question. There are a number of manufacturers that treat even the basic bore size (of course it fluctuates within the all horns) as proprietary information. Uebel is one of those companies. I asked two company representatives presenting a showing last month and they were pretty clear about not stating what it is.
Keep in mind that companies also tend to change from time to time to present a different (hopefully), more desirable product for that period. I recall one moment in time during the mid eighties where Wurlitzer changed to a larger bore that did work so well for their core clientele and they introduced a hybrid design with a year or two.
Safe to say though that the Superior is a larger bore than the Preference based on the way they play.
...........Paul Aviles
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2015-01-30 00:07
I played their full Boehm line at NAMM. Although they were all good horns, the Superior was the only one that really got to me. I kept coming back to play it one more time, and because of that I'm afraid I can't remember the other models well enough at this point to make any relevant comparison.
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Author: Paula S
Date: 2015-01-30 00:36
Paul,
Did you find the dynamic range greater on the Superior?
I can literally shake the walls with my larger bore intruments. I can only get to about half the volume on my Uebels although the ppp on both types of instrument is equally good.
Also I have a much wider range of expression on the larger bores although these are probably not as consistent or confining as the narrower bore isntruments.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-01-30 01:29
Gosh the 1010s are such a unique animal it's hard to compare.
I'll get at what I mean about the Superiors in another way.
My Oehler system Wurlitzers were a "larger bore" (for Wurilizers that is) and the effect was more a 'dispersal' of the sound. I am getting the impression that "Viennese" style bores are bigger (still not 1010 big, and certainly paired with a TOTALLY different mouthpiece), so I'd say the Superior is a bit more "Viennese." Pairing with a standard French mouthpiece (and associated approach to blowing and embouchure) the result is just less 'overtone rich.' You could call it "darker" or more "mellow" perhaps. It is just less Buffet like than the "Presence."
...........Paul Aviles
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Author: Paula S
Date: 2015-01-31 00:17
Thanks for that Paul ;-)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-01-31 03:21
nellsonic: "I played their full Boehm line at NAMM"
I originally read that as they offered full Boehms!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-02-01 09:23
Well I need to readjust my initial impression of the Uebel top-of-the-line "Superior" clarinet. I was able to try another this afternoon, new just out of the box. Before assembly, I did a quick suction test of both joints individually and found them to seal like coke bottles. The spring tensions seemed just about ideal (even being as picky as I can be about this I doubt that I'd change a thing about this one).
Once I put it together I did a last check in the room with a brand new Buffet Greenline I have been using for the past two weeks which has a lovely resonance and very good intonation. The first notes out of the "Superior" came out like a canon! I couldn't believe how resonant and alive the sound was in comparison to the R13 (that I am using). The intonation tendency was what I expected which is that it is VERY even and has NO tendency to be flat at the first space "F." The sound just seemed to get more rich and resonant as I played......it was simply magnificent !!!! If there was any bit of a damper on my enthusiasm it was that the low "E" and "F" were every bit as low as one would expect from any other pro Boehm (the vented bell did not make them more even than any other Boehm) but I forgive Uebel.
I can't understand what happened when I first auditioned the "Superior" at the Madison Band Clarinet event to make me think it was any less vibrant in sound than the "Preference" model. All I can say is that I grabbed the "Superior" at that event off a stand as it sat fully assembled (no leak test first). Also, it was carried to the event by representatives that may have "set it up" some how to achieve a certain objective in the sound. At any rate the "Superior" is just that. As "Cocobolokid" describes in superlatives, this horn is really something special.
As a side bar, I also tried the entry level horn from Uebel (still all leather pads and silver plated keys) and it compared quite well to the top-of-the-line horn. Whereas the Buffet E11 is a vastly different horn that is not set up as professional horn, this one is.
The Uebels are making it known that they will be a force to be reckoned with.
............Paul Aviles
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Author: CocoboloKid
Date: 2015-02-01 11:44
I'm glad you gave the Superior another go, Paul! I just can't stop thinking about it! It's the only other wood clarinet besides the Yamaha CSGH-III that I am considering right now (Still very happy with my Libertas, and in fact just closed a run of a show with it today! Even so, I'm getting the itch to buy a new pair of wooden horns to go along with it. GAS, as ever! ).
I also 100% agree with you about the "Classic". It really is quite an instrument for the lowest model on the totem pole in their lineup. Beautifully finished, a lovely sound, and excellent intonation for an extremely reasonable price!
I'm looking forward to seeing what happens with them in the next few years!
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Author: James S
Date: 2015-02-01 11:48
Damn right Paul!!! When I tried them at clarinetfest I was floored. I could NOT stop smiling and after playing them I had this warm fuzzy feeling. I know it sounds romanticized and a little silly, but those are truly special instruments! After all my years of fooling around with all the horns I can find here in the states, I can safely say the Superior matches that ideal sound that's always been sneaking around in the back of my head. I always thought one's ideal sound was simply some intangible, unreachable goal to guide you towards new things, but nope. It's real and I found it! 4,000 for my perfect sound? Seems like a steal to me
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-02-01 22:28
Now they ought to start building basset horns (using the same mechanism as Buffet but with the thumb keys below the thumbrest instead of off to the left) to bury their basset horns of the old DDR-era into the ground and make the new ones that are more affordable than Buffet and Selmer.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2015-02-02 02:46
With proper basset horn bore Chris. (Clarinet in F and not an alto clarinet in F)
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2015-02-02 02:57
"Clarinet in F and not an Alto clarinet in F ?
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2015-02-02 03:05
i have a Bundy in F. Well, it's an extremely flat F, it's nearly two semitones off. Must be a low pitch instrument. ![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif)
--
Ben
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Author: Bob Barnhart ★2017
Date: 2015-02-03 02:34
For example, Mozart's Marriage of Figaro calls for "Basset Horns in F".
I played this opera once and we had a pair of Buffet Prestige Basset Horns rented from UC Davis (?). They seemed to be a much more approachable instrument than the typical Alto Clarinet, although that may in part be due to the fact that most Alto Clarinets are probably student instruments, and the Basset Horns were Prestiges...
Bob Barnhart
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Author: larryb
Date: 2015-10-18 16:23
Bob: Nice that you were able to play the seldom performed "al desio di chi t'adora" substitute aria in Figaro! I've always wanted to play that, though I think the more common "deh vieni non tardar" is a lovelier song.
Folks, stop harshing on the "alto in F" basset horns. If played well, they can make beautiful music.
Back to point: I'd like to try these Uebels, but if they do live up to their name I'd be somewhat concerned.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-10-18 17:16
What's the cause for concern?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2015-10-18 18:18
> What's the cause for concern?
"Uebel" or "übel" in German means "really bad", the word has the same root as the English "evil". :-)
Having said that, I am very happy with my Emperior Bass.
--
Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-10-18 20:46
HAHAHA!
Their DDR-era basset horns definitely lived up to that!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2015-10-18 22:10
I had the chance to try out the Uebel Superior at length recently on a visit to Dawkes. To me, it felt really quite similar to an R13. With both these instruments, I feel that the sound in the clarion register lacks warmth, and you have to work to avoid it sounding thin. On that visit, I was much more impressed by the Yahama CSGIII, which had a significantly smoother sound.
Uebel has one other similarity to Buffet: they've copied the Prestige range and stuck a big pointless cheap-looking lump of metal up by the logo. A pity.
Paula: I think there may be myths regarding the effect of a large bore. I've recently started playing on Eaton Internationals, and I find they give more freedom than I ever found on my R13's: more sound in reserve. So a French-bore instrument can definitely capture the positive characteristics of a 1010, and bore size alone may not have much to do with it.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2015-10-18 22:42
I have two DDR-era F. Arthur Uebel bass clarinets (both narrow-bore instruments ca. 20mm), one an Oehler-system courtesy of Herr Ben alias "tictactux", and the other a very unusual Boehm-system bass to low-C from 1977.
I think they are both wonderful instruments, "DDR-era" aside, and have gradually become my primary bass clarinets for orchestral and clarinet ensemble work.
So nanny-nanny boo-boo to you Uebel naysayers, say I.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-02-17 20:33
I had a good play test on an Uebel Emperior bass at Dawkes yesterday and was super impressed with it. I didn't have my mouthpiece but used the stock plastic mouthpiece with a Rico Royal 3 and it played effortlessly.
Only thing I wasn't overly happy about was they don't have the adjusting screws for the long Bb and the speaker mechanism linkage to the RH3 fingerplate, but the keywork is otherwise identical to the Buffet Prestige. It was set up very well (better than Buffet) and they used much better materials than Buffet for the linkages using natural cork instead of that dreadful synthetic foam stuff Buffet have been using for ages.
Although the spring tension was set firmer than on Buffets, it wasn't hard work under the fingers and that can be addressed easily enough should anyone want the action lightened up.
Not sure about all the engraving on the bell, but that's only a cosmetic thing. The bell bow has a far more aesthetically pleasing curve to it instead of being flattened out with sharper bends as it is on Buffets.
Had I known they had one in stock, I'd have taken my Prestige bass to do a side-by-side comparison. But it played as expected and didn't seem to be all that different to my Buffet. I also found the upper register F# could be staccato tongued much easier than on my Buffet, but that could be down to the mouthpiece/reed combo I used.
And with the Uebel Emperior being around £1300 less than the Buffet Prestige (£5530 against Buffet's £6853), a little bit less than the Yamaha YCL-622II (£5682) and far less than the Buffet Tosca (£8081) and Selmer Privilege (£8875), I'd definitely recommend it to anyone wanting a pro level low C bass for under £6000 with very easy going keywork.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2016-02-17 20:37
Thanks Chris. That is very helpful.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-02-18 04:10
I also had a close look over the Uebel soprano clarinets while I was there (but didn't play test them).
While the keywork on them is also near identical to Buffet's, they do spring the F#/C# key in the normal manner by having the spring mounted in the pillar and with the spring tip engaging in a spring catch on the underside of the key rod - not the other way round as Buffet still insist in springing the F#/C# key on their soprano clarinets which only makes it difficult to get the balance and feel right.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: wkleung
Date: 2016-12-31 17:20
Has anyone tried their German clarinets? Are those good also?
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2016-12-31 20:28
Briefly. Liked the sound, but the ergonomics seemed a little more difficult than Wurlitzers. Leister started out playing them, so of course they were good, but don't know how they've changed since then.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2017-01-01 20:34
Just on the original question of the quality of the new Uebel Boehm ("French") clarinets, it doesn't seem that many players have had a chance to try them. In the US, outside of the big clarinet shows and one or two retailers (one of which sells the three lower-priced models on Internet) these soprano Boehm Uebels are pretty hard to find.
In my brief moment trying a Uebel Superior in a crowded expo hall, the clarinet played very smoothly from top to bottom with little embouchure change needed, and the tone was indeed darker and more like a German Reform Boehm.
Discussions of the Uebel Boehms have tended to pursue the tangent of their place of manufacture (thought by many to be China) rather than remaining centered on their quality and performance.
Josh Johnson, now a Uebel artist playing a pair of Superiors as his main clarinets, explains his attraction to the new Uebel Boehms in two entries in his blog: Monday, July 11, 2016, "Uebel Instrument in the 21st Century--a Primer; and March 2, 2016, "The Uebel Superior: Why Yes, Yes It Is."
http://www.woodwindwonderland.blogspot.com.
Regarding the place of manufacture for the Uebel Boehm clarinets, he says
"I reached out to the owner/CEO of the company via the distributor. Yes, Uebel does own and operate a factory in China . . . but the French system clarinets are in fact made entirely in Markneukirchen, Germany."
Post Edited (2017-01-01 21:39)
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Author: efsf081
Date: 2017-01-02 10:01
I know Uebel Boehm clarinet are all made in China, because many of my friend in mainland China visited their factory before. But don't trust me, who am I, right?
Let consider about two fact, then you will know are Uebel Boehm clarinet made in Germany or not.
1. In Uebel website, they never assert their clarinet are "made in Germany". They just mark "Germany" on their clarinet. As my understand, it is like the "German style" sausage you can buy from supermarket. It doesn't mean it is made in Germany.
2. On the other hand, in W. Schreiber (Buffet group) website, they assert clearly that their clarinet "100% MADE IN GERMANY".
http://www.w-schreiber.com/en/about-us/
Why Uebel never make a similar statement?
I think the answer is very clear, isn't it?
I am just talking about the place of manufacture, not quality. I totally agree that the Uebel clarinet can be a good (or bad) clarinet whatever where it made, either in Germany or China.
Post Edited (2017-01-02 11:32)
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Author: ruben
Date: 2017-01-02 15:34
Their relatively low price is also a pretty good indication that they are made in China.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2017-01-02 19:21
Until I see a picture of an Uebel superior being made in China, I don't see any evidence that they were made there. Representatives of Uebel have stated multiple times that the Boehm system instruments are made in Germany. On the other hand I have seen ZERO evidence that they were made in China, besides the "low price" which only really seems low compared to the super expensive instruments out there. Any logical person should reason that we should drop the issue and be happy that there is a new manufacturer of high quality German bore instruments in the market.
Back on subject, does anyone know if any stores in the US stock Uebel clarinets? I'm very curious to try one out.
-Jdbassplayer
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Author: tucker ★2017
Date: 2017-01-02 19:44
JDBassplayer, contact Josh Johnson on Facebook. He's in the NY/NH area and can demo/ let you try them out. If you're not on facebook, let me know and I can get a message to him to contact you. LOVE my Emperior!
Post Edited (2017-01-02 19:48)
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2017-01-02 23:19
Uebel has moved all production of their "German" system clarinets to their Chinese factory. All "French" style are made in Germany. I've had quite a few conversations with the Uebel People, and this is what they assure me.
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2017-01-02 23:27
They do the last step of assembly, adjustment and packing in Germany, so theoretically it is not incorrect to say they are made in Germany. However, it is against the law to mark "Made in Germany" on their clarinets in such situation, which they certainly do not.
Post Edited (2017-01-02 23:32)
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2017-01-03 00:00
jdbassplayer,
Frank Cotton at Madison Band Supply Co. in Madison, Alabama (www.madisonbandsupply.com)--1604 Hughes Road--stocks Uebel French Boehm system clarinets in his store and also sells them on the famous Internet web site. Uebel will probably also have some at the 2017 ClarinetFest in Florida. And, as Tucker said, in the New York and Boston/New England areas, you can contact Uebel artist/representative Josh Johnson to try Uebels there.
Clearly Uebel needs to set up a retail distribution system that makes it easier for people in different regions of the country (for example, Gulf Coast South, Southwest, Pacific West Coast, Midwest) to try their instruments. I'd love to have a chance to compare the top line Uebels with the Yamaha CSVR, CSG II, and SEV Artist, and the Buffet Tradition to really be able to judge from among the newer alternatives of pro clarinets available in that price range today.
Post Edited (2017-01-03 01:10)
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2017-01-03 00:20
Their website lists:
MOE-BLEICHNER - MUSIC DISTRIBUTION LL
2424 Abercorn Str. -Suite 102
GA 31401 SAVANNAH
United States of America
.fon: +1-912-2570956
web: www.uebelusa.com
E-Mail: Victoria.Moe@moe-bleichner.com
Weiner Music also sells them.
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Author: efsf081
Date: 2017-01-03 05:22
>>jdbassplayer
>>"Representatives of Uebel have stated multiple times that the Boehm system instruments are made in Germany. "
May I ask for a reliable source of this statement? I can't find it on Uebel website or Facebook.
>>"Any logical person should reason that we should drop the issue and be happy that there is a new manufacturer of high quality German bore instruments in the market. "
Have you measure the bore of Uebel clarinet before? How you know it is a German bore clarinet?
You need to know, on their website, Uebel never use the term "German bore" to describe their clarinet. Never.
Post Edited (2017-01-03 05:23)
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2017-01-03 05:31
Message I sent to Uebel USA
I'm interested in your clarinets, probably a pair - Bb and an A. (Do you have an Eb?) Are these 100% German? (This is important to me.) I live in Rockford, Illinois - Are there authorized dealers in Chicago? Or can I order direct from Uebel USA? Also - does Uebel still market a Reform-Boehm clarinet?
Reply from Uebel
Thank you for contacting us!
I'm happy to hear that you are interested in Uebel clarinets and I'm sorry to say that we don't have a dealer in Chicago yet.
That being said, we'd be more than happy to get you a set of Uebels directly.
The Uebel Clarinets are completely made in Germany and there is a German (Oehler) System line and a French (Boehm) System line.
In the French System line, the Superior, which comes in the key of Bb and A, is the one with the most German sound by far.
It is known for being very dark, warm, and overall German in sound, which is actually the reason Uebel discontinued their Reform clarinet. The Superior comes so close to the German sound, there was no longer a need for the Reform, since its bore in particular is designed to get you the warmth and velvety sound of the Oehler clarinet without the German keywork.
The other Uebel clarinet that comes in Bb and A, is the Advantage, which is a little more free blowing than the Superior but also slightly less German in sound.
There is a Superior Eb clarinet that is about to be released, but we don't have an exact release date from the manufacturer quite yet. If you want I can let you know once we get one in stock here in the US.
We would be very happy to get you one or more Uebel clarinets and from what you described in your email, it definitely sounds like the Uebels are a great choice for you.
I hope I answered your questions. Please don't hesitate to let me know if you have any more about the clarinet or the process of purchasing one from us. I'm happy to assist in any way I can.
I'm looking forward to hearing from you.
Best Regards,
Annabelle
--
Annabelle Moe
Marketing and Sales
Moe-Bleichner Music Distribution
1117 Mahantongo St
Pottsville, PA 17090
Fax: 912.292.9866
www.Moe-Bleichner.com
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2017-01-03 06:10
efsf081,
http://www.uebelusa.com/contact
I've provided the contact page for Uebel USA. They should be able to answer all your questions about where there Boehm clarinets are made. I hope this source is reliable enough for you.
-Jdbassplayer
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2017-01-03 06:48
Regarding the bore of the Uebel Superior model clarinet, more than one player in direct contact with the Uebel company has been told that it was designed in collaboration with Jochen Seggelke (of Schwenk and Seggelke) to produce a Germanic sound similar to that of the high end Seggelke model 3000 clarinet.
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2017-01-03 07:04
DeLeon -
As you can see from your provided "contact link" - the contact is the same as my correspondence.
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
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Author: efsf081
Date: 2017-01-03 07:06
Thanks for KenJarczyk reply.
My question is same as my first post:
Unless in personal contact or private email, Uebel never publicly assert where their boehm clarinet made.
As a logical person, we need to ask: Why?
Every one should have his own answer of this question.
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Author: efsf081
Date: 2017-01-03 07:39
Post Edited (2017-01-03 07:43)
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2017-01-03 18:02
"Regarding the bore of the Uebel Superior model clarinet, more than one player in direct contact with the Uebel company has been told that it was designed in collaboration with Jochen Seggelke (of Schwenk and Seggelke) to produce a Germanic sound similar to that of the high end Seggelke model 3000 clarinet."
Thanks, Seabreeze. That would be pretty auspicious; I've talked to a few players, especially British, who've tried Seggelke instruments and they've all really liked them. One thing that would be good to know is what that does to the possibility of using mouthpieces other that the standard French style everyone uses with Buffets, Selmers, and Yamahas. I'm not sure what S&S recommend for their 3000s, but several makers of Reform Boehms recommend German-style mouthpieces, there now seem to be sort of hybrid mouthpieces with a more French feel but a bore compatible with Reform Boehms, and the page on barrels at S&S seems to imply that they have or will make a barrel to match a given mouthpiece to a given instrument bore.
You can certainly understand why Uebel is marketing the Superior with and for French-style mouthpieces here, but if what you really want is a German sound, it would be nice if there were a barrel that allowed you to use a German mouthpiece on them. Unless they've made the upper joint bore in such a way that the tuning wouldn't work with one.
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2017-01-03 18:54
"Regarding the bore of the Uebel Superior model clarinet, more than one player in direct contact with the Uebel company has been told that it was designed in collaboration with Jochen Seggelke (of Schwenk and Seggelke) to produce a Germanic sound similar to that of the high end Seggelke model 3000 clarinet."
Model 3000 is a reform-boehm clarinet, right? Interesting, if jochen Seggelke could design a boehm system clarinet producing German sound, why do they still produce such an expensive and complex reform-boehm clarinet on their own brand?
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Author: efsf081
Date: 2017-01-03 19:04
>>dorjepismo
"I'm not sure what S&S recommend for their 3000s, but several makers of Reform Boehms recommend German-style mouthpieces, "
Nowaday, you don't need to play a Reform Boehms with German-style mouthpieces.
As I know, at last the reform boehm of L&K, Dietz and S&S can been used with any mouthpiece you want(French mouthpiece , German mouthpiece, or even a German mouthpiece with French facing) The only thing need to change is the barrel.
Post Edited (2017-01-03 19:14)
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2017-01-03 19:25
efsf,
Yes, but they probably have opinions on what works best. I wrote the Kronthalers asking about their Boehm (not reform, though they have a large bore and a throat Bb vent) instruments, and they replied that they can make them for any mouthpiece, but the German ones produce the "greatest sound." Having played both, I don't think there's any way you're going to get the same sound, response, high notes and so on on a Vandoren that you will on a Wurlitzer German-style mouthpiece.
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2017-01-03 19:36
dorjepismo,
Could you please message me the email address of Kronthalers? Very interested in their instruments. Thanks!
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2017-01-03 20:20
Sure. How do I do that? I'm not seeing a private messaging option. I don't want to post it, as there's probably a reason they don't put it on their website, and I don't want to make them unhappy for any reason. Thanks!
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Author: tristanidyll
Date: 2017-01-05 07:03
Hi Klose, I spoke with Jochen Seggelke about two months ago and learned that the Uebel Superior's bore design was actually meant to replicate his Model 1000 as opposed to the Model 3000. According to him, the Stolzel firm wanted a clarinet that had a sound akin to a "Germanized" Boehm clarinet, but with more resistance. The bore isn't a large bore instrument (closer to 14.7 than the Model 3000's 14.85), but the acoustics (and the instrument walls) were designed to impart a richer tone.
Designing a clarinet after the Model 3000 would require drastic changes to the tone hole distribution, in addition to adding a few mechanisms that are not included in the standard Boehm keywork. Additionally, the barrel length would be shorter for a model 3000 as opposed to the Superior's standard French barrel dimensions. Additionally, the Superior was designed with a different (e.g. non R-13) polycylindrical bore compared with the straight bore used in true German instruments.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2017-01-05 08:11
Thank you tristanidyll for this updated information. What you say would make more sense, and you are the first person I've heard reporting directly what Seggelke himself has to say about the design of the Superior. Of course, having actual bore measurements for comparison helps to clarify all of this. At any rate it is good to confirm that Seggelke did indeed have a hand in the design of the Uebel Superior clarinet.
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Author: efsf081
Date: 2017-01-05 09:32
It is interesting when we compare KenJarczyk Date: 2017-01-03, seabreeze Date: 2017-01-03, and tristanidyll post together.
KenJarczyk: "The Superior comes so close to the German sound, there was no longer a need for the Reform, since its bore in particular is designed to get you the warmth and velvety sound of the Oehler clarinet without the German keywork."
seabreeze: "more than one player in direct contact with the Uebel company has been told that it was designed in collaboration with Jochen Seggelke (of Schwenk and Seggelke) to produce a Germanic sound similar to that of the high end Seggelke model 3000 clarinet."
tristanidyll: "Uebel Superior's bore design was actually meant to replicate his Model 1000(French clarinet with Boehm bore) as opposed to the Model 3000. According to him, the Stolzel firm wanted a clarinet that had a sound akin to a "Germanized" Boehm clarinet. Additionally, the Superior was designed with a different (e.g. non R-13) polycylindrical bore compared with the straight bore used in true German instruments."
I am not try to make fun of anyone. but it prove that private email or "I hear from someone" is really not a reliable source.
Personally I hear something similar that tristanidyll said (not directly from Jochen Seggelke). But don't trust me, who am I, right?
If you are looking for German made Boehm clarinet with German bore. You have many other choice (with similar price )from the company more reliable.
And please don't think that is really a Boehm clarinet are "so close to the German sound, there was no longer a need for the Reform". Are all German clarinet maker whose still make reform Boehm are doing something stupid and unnecessary?
Dietz are making a Hybrid clarinet with true German bore (14.8mm straight bore, and the bores widens out widely at the bottom of the lower joint). But they still making Reform Boehm.
Post Edited (2017-01-05 11:39)
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2017-01-05 10:34
On 2013-11-03 16:36 Lu Dietz sent a message to Clarinetbb about his hybrid clarinet:
"I (the Dietz son) just read your discussion about our Hybrid clarinet....
Regarding the mouthpiece the Hybrid clarinet can be played with Boehm mouthpieces as well as German mouthpieces. Of course the barrel has to fit, but it can be made for both types. I would say this is just a matter of taste and habituation. You are all invited to visit our workshop (...on the top of the garages...) in Neustadt an der Aisch. Please feel free to contact me and my father by mail (info@dietz-klarinetten.de) for further questions."
If the Dietz hybrid clarinets were available through dealers in the US (they do occasionally turn up at the big clarinet fests, along with the Dietz Reform Boehm), I'm sure many of us would be trying and probably buying them.
Post Edited (2017-01-05 10:57)
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Author: tristanidyll
Date: 2017-01-05 10:36
I don't think the evolution of artist quality, non-French sounding Boehm clarinets necessarily displaces the tonal concept of the Reform Boehm family of instruments. For one, the Uebel Superior is not the first Boehm system clarinet in the market that combines the flexible keywork of the French sytem with a different bore. Otmar Hammerschmidt, Clemens Meinel, Otto and Johanna Kronthaler, Peter Eaton, and other small clarinet makers have experimented on Boehm instruments with elements of bore and acoustic designs that deviate from the Buffet-Selmer tradition. Otmar Hammerschmidt, for instance, manufactures a Bohm clarinet with a 15.00 mm Viennese bore.
http://www.hammerschmidt-klarinetten.at/cgi-bin/frameset.pl?sid=397700318674&vid=141707897975&l=deutsch&f=home&id=
All ateliers have imparted unique characteristics that while coming closer to the Bavarian tonal ideal, do not exactly capture that artistry.
Reform Boehms are usually advertised as powerful, German bore clarinets with souped up French keywork. In reality, that only captures a fraction of the truth. In my mind, the acoustic quality of these very special instruments straddles that fabricated divide between the French and German sound worlds. More German than French, perhaps, but not entirely German due to the placement of the tone holes (versus the Oehler placement). Played correctly, Reform Boehm clarinets exhibit more tonal colors and flexibility compared to their pure Oehler counterparts, but achieving this would require intimacy with a different embouchure and mouthpiece make than what Boehm artists are familiar with. While I believe that it is possible to play a Reform Boehm instrument with a French mouthpiece, capturing the tonal concept of the design works best with a German or a Reform Boehm mouthpiece.
The Uebel Superiors do emit a rich, creamy sound, but I believe that the acoustic design is closer to the 1000 due to the ease of pairing the instrument with French mouthpieces and barrels. You can't attach a Behn or a Fobes on a Wurlitzer or a Leitner und Kraus and expect it to play in tune or sound the way that George Pieterson, Arno Pieters, Arno Stoffelsma, Jacques Meertens, or Hein Wiedijk do on their instruments. To play Reform Boehm instruments correctly, one must pair the instruments with a Wurlitzer, L&K, Hans Colbers, Gleichweit, or Kuckmeier full German, Reform Boehm, or German chamber/French lay mouthpieces with German reeds (Leuthner, Steuer, or Pilgerstorfer). The Uebel Superior's upper parts can easily be swapped with readily available after-market products like the Backun barrels and any one of the dozens of mouthpiece makers without compromising the tuning.
Lastly, the addition of the Acton Mechanik, the lower joint double venting, and the B-flat mechanism, to name just a few of the wonderful additions that Fritz Wurlitzer added to his creation many decades ago, impart a beautiful and powerful sound that can never be paralleled by any of the top bracket non-Buffet/Selmer Boehm clarinet makers.
I suppose there is a reason why the Reform Boehm design, while only receive a sliver of the clarinet market share, continues to exist to this day. It's just different enough from the Oehler system to justify its continued manufacture in the German speaking world, whereas it improves dramatically on many of the French system's shortcomings.
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Author: efsf081
Date: 2017-01-05 11:08
tristanidyll, yout list of French sytem with a different bore is great.
At first we thought Uebel Superiors clarinet is: made in Germany, with German bore, German sound as a Reform Boehm, similar to the high end Seggelke model 3000 clarinet (their reform Boehm model)
Now, we know Uebel Superiors clarinet is: made in a country Uebel never publicly assert, with polycylindrical bore, at most is a "Germanized" Boehm, base on the design of Seggelke model 1000 (their French model.)
Sorry if I am too wordy, I am just try to make thing clear.
To those who never hear a Seggelke model 1000, here is a good example.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBxZGubZnt8
Enjoy!
seabreeze: Contact them now. Mr Dietz is very helpful and reply email regularly. I think they may send their clarinet for you to try if you make a agreement with them.
Post Edited (2017-01-05 19:04)
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Author: tristanidyll
Date: 2017-01-05 11:09
Direct evidence from the Schwenk und Seggelke website regarding Jochen Seggelke's involvement in the acoustic design of the post-Stolzel Uebel clarinets:
Seit 2014 berät Jochen Seggelke die Fa. Uebel in akustischen und technischen Fragen, er hat die Neuproduktion der verschiedenen Modelle seither konsequent überwacht. Das heißt für uns, dass wir ein Sortiment an qualitätsgeprüften Klarinetten von Es bis Bass in deutscher und französischer Griffweise anbieten können, deren Preis- Leistungsverhältnis optimal ist, und deren Spieleigenschaften in Richtung der von uns gefertigten Instrumente weisen.
Since 2014, Jochen Seggelke advises Uebel in acoustical and technical questions. He has consistently monitored the new production of the various models since then. This means that we can offer a range of quality-tested Clarinets from Es to Bass, in German and French, whose price / performance ratio is optimal, and whose playing characteristics point towards the instruments we have manufactured.
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2017-01-05 11:32
I still do not understand why people seem desperately to try to find a french clarinet with German sound, if you like German sound, switch to Oehler. It is really not that difficult. Otherwise, French clarinets are also totally fine.
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Author: tristanidyll
Date: 2017-01-05 11:36
Hi Efsf,
I would venture to say that the Superior really is its own bore. Neither French nor German, but a polycylindrical, non R13 or RC bore with thick walls that complements the Boehm keywork. It's definitely not a Reform Boehm, and anyone who says that it is close should listen to and examine the design of a Wurlizter or a Schwenk und Seggelke to really understand how vastly different the measurements are among the joints, mouthpiece, barrel, and bore.
Regarding its provenance, I never bothered to ask Jochen about Uebel's French clarinet production.
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Author: tristanidyll
Date: 2017-01-05 11:45
People are daunted by the change of fingering and mouthpiece/reed variations.
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2017-01-05 11:46
If you really tried, it is not difficult at all. I know a lot of clarinet players later on also play saxophone. The reed/mouthpiece/fingering changes are much bigger than switching to Oehler. Of course, once you changed, you should never go back.
Post Edited (2017-01-05 11:51)
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2017-01-05 11:55
And a lot of very famous players actually changed. For example, Mate Bekavac, who is famous for his supreme Carmen fantasy, now plays Oehler.
www.matebekavac.com/
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2017-01-05 12:05
tristanidyll:
It is also worthwhile to note that the website you mentioned is titled as Student Clarinet. I hope people do not misunderstand that Jochen helped Uebel to design a professional model. Or maybe Uebel claims they are professional but in S&S's opinion, they are just for students.
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Author: tristanidyll
Date: 2017-01-05 12:07
I switched from sax to clarinet fairly late in a musician's career. Best decision I ever made in the musicking part of my life. Well made Oehler clarinets are works of art, and I don't find the fingering all that difficult to learn. That being said, the switch to a German mouthpiece was tougher than learning the key system in order to voice the notes correctly and in tune, but once you know how to voice on a German mouthpiece, my playing on a French mouthpiece improved dramatically.
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Author: tristanidyll
Date: 2017-01-05 12:13
I think Schwenk und Seggelke just advertised their Uebel consultation in that page to offer clients alternatives apart from their own professional instruments.
If you want to sample the finest of what the Oehler system has to offer, check out Dietz's Solist W21 model and other similar Wiener Modell offerings from the ateliers. Wurlitzer makes one according to Bernd and Ulrich, and Jochen makes them for his Modell 2000 line. Or Gerold Angerer.
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2017-01-05 12:14
In fact, nowadays the mouthpiece is not that bore specific. When you order a German clarinet, you can also ask them to build a French mouthpiece compatible barrel thus you almost do not need to change your embouchure at all. I actually know so many Oehler players just use Vandoren French mouthpieces.
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2017-01-05 12:17
tristanidyll:
I am an Oehler player and I tried all brands you mentioned. Do you play both?
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Author: tristanidyll
Date: 2017-01-05 12:30
I play 185 Reform Boehm clarinets, but have tried the Oehlers. I find that the wide bore Oehler clarinets have a much purer, darker sound concept compared with the Reform Boehms, but the flexibility of the Reforms appeals more to me.
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Author: tristanidyll
Date: 2017-01-05 15:39
That being said, I find it fascinating that the 15 mm bore Viennese model clarinet seem to access a larger palette of colors than the slightly smaller wide German bores. Even with the Oehler configuration.
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2017-01-05 18:02
"That being said, the switch to a German mouthpiece was tougher than learning the key system in order to voice the notes correctly and in tune, but once you know how to voice on a German mouthpiece, my playing on a French mouthpiece improved dramatically."
"That being said, I find it fascinating that the 15 mm bore Viennese model clarinet seem to access a larger palette of colors than the slightly smaller wide German bores."
Both consistent with my experience. If you know what you're aiming for and tweak the setup, you can play a French mouthpiece in a way compatible with how you play a German one, but the reverse does not work so well. Playing 1010s, which have a straight bore 0.2 mm wider than what people are calling a "Viennese" bore (apart from Rossi, anyway), gives me a noticeably better range of both dynamics and tone color than I had with Buffets, though of course there are Buffet players who do better than I in both categories. Still, if there's a way of sounding like Leister or one of the Ottensamers on a Vandoren mouthpiece, I'm not aware of having heard it. Haven't hear anyone sound like Marcellus on a Wurlitzer, either.
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Author: tristanidyll
Date: 2017-01-05 20:12
I have found that for my Wurlitzer Reform Boehm, the WZ2 produces the most ringing, resonant sound when paired with a Peter Leuthner 3.0 strength Professional Cut German reed or a Steuer S800.
Alternatively, Nick Kuckmeier's mouthpieces work quite well with my setup. The Solist M is especially beautiful when you play it with a Legere 3.25 (European signature), or a Steuer 3.0 Advantage.
German sounding clarinets are always lovely, but you have to be intimate with the embouchure and breathing technique to get that sound right on a Reform Boehm.
What makes the Uebel Superior so spectacular is that it accomplishes a fraction of this with a polycylindrical, standard length Boehm setup without requiring different barrels (e.g. Yamaha CSG) or mouthpieces.
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2017-07-20 10:58
FYI,
Uebel is currently building a new, relatively big workshop in Markneukirchen, you know, THE clarinet making city in Germany. At this point we can probably assume that at least the higher end models are fully made in Germany.
Also, they've announced a number of new releases:
Among those are a gold plated superior, an Eb superior (!!!), and just a few days back, a superior II popped up on their website, but I can't find more information on that and it doesn't seem to be available yet.
Anyways, they're seriously tackling the international (professional) Boehm market and I think that's fantastic. Might be a game changer in the current situation of Buffet holding the biggest shares.
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2017-07-20 17:21
It will be tough to unseat Buffet. Many have tried numerous times with no success.
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2017-07-20 17:46
In addition to the quality, to get the market, I believe this company also needs to sign some good aritists. On its homepage, they even put a player from a Police Orchestra, which makes people believe it seems no real professional likes their instruments. Or are there any professional orchestral players who use their clarinets?
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2017-07-20 22:20
http://www.uebel-klarinetten.de/english/artists.html
Unfortunately the usa artist list is as bad as the ".de" one... No one really plays
in a professional orchestra...
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Author: tucker ★2017
Date: 2017-07-21 00:07
Since when do you have to play in a "professional orchestra" to be considered something other than a member of a "bad list" in your opinion?
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2017-07-21 00:30
This is certainly relative. As some one mentioned "they're seriously tackling the international (professional) Boehm market", so I say it is bad compared with the list of Buffet, Backun and Yamaha, altought it is not comparable in my opinion...
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2017-07-21 00:38
Furthermore, I am not saying that no real professional orchestra musician plays their instruments means the quality is not good (it takes time of course). However, in terms of marketing, the artist list of Uebel actually has a negetive effect on the potential customers. I was very surpised when I saw a member of a police orchestra on the list.
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2017-07-21 01:01
It's the same with many sports, for example mountain biking. To gain some attention, you'll have to engage some "pro" riders and show up at major events, eventually. There have been many brands with rapid growth, but in order to succeed, they always had to invest into marketing.
Uebel could at least post some more photos of their clarinets... Or write some text about their product, like anyone does in every other branch. Right now, this forum might be their best advertisement yet.
Now that I think about it - perhaps one reason for Buffet's overwhelming market share is the fact that they're making the greater advertising efforts than other manufacturers.
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2017-07-21 04:00
It is certain that so far no players from any top orchestras spontaneously change to their intruments. It's also possile that the marketing team of Uebel tried but professionals don't think the intruments are good enough or suitable for them.
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2017-07-21 19:14
Tried an Uebel Superior briefly at last year's Clarinetfest. Liked the sound, didn't like the ergonomics so much, but that wasn't enough of a test to say whether they belong in professional orchestras. They're operating under some disadvantages, though. To the extent people have heard of them, they've probably also heard that Leister used to play their German system instruments, switched to Wurlitzer, and thereafter Wurlitzer became the hot instruments to use for German orchestras. If you compare their website and overall marketing to Backun and Yamaha, which are in the same position of trying to establish themselves in the high-end market, they don't come off well. I don't know how hard they've tried to convince big name players in the U.S. to try their instruments, but they haven't had the kind of success in terms of conspicuous adoption that Backun or Yamaha has had. If you put an Uebel and a Backun side by side and just look at them, the Backun comes off as something entirely out of the ordinary and the Uebel doesn't. Top orchestra players already sound great and can do everything they need to do on what they're playing now, so there need to be compelling reasons to switch, and Uebel doesn't seem to be making much of a case that there are.
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2017-07-21 22:16
Setting pro orchestras to the side for a second...
Perhaps Uebel is missing an opportunity. In the HS band and college wind ensemble world conductors seem to be craving a darker sound from clarinet sections. They want the clarinet sound differentiated sound from the flutes and oboes.
If Uebel can give a darker quality using traditional Boehm, they could tap into entire market. I've heard college conductors state they wish composers would utilize A clarinet more for that quality.
Now you'd have to get the clarinet professor on board. And all I offer theory with no solutions for Uebel's marketing.
Time will tell.
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2017-07-21 23:19
Robt, true, but that takes you at least half-way down the range to get to a competitive price, and each model has its own bore, about which they don't say much. The Superior sure has a nice dark sound. Some people say they got help from Jochen S. with that bore. Don't know about the others.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-01-27 18:09
(refers to a now deleted "resurrected" post being used to advertise Uebel/a n Austrian resource. A person paid to do this in India resurrected the post- I did a trace on it. Mark C.)
Another use of and old thread to ADVERTISE for the Uebels.
Not bad horns............just don't resort to this trashy move in the future
..................Paul Aviles (NOT a Uebel user)
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The Clarinet Pages
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