 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: gkern
Date: 2013-12-17 18:12
Attachment: clarinet.jpg (103k)
Attachment: bell_600.jpg (38k)
Attachment: top_joint_800.jpg (38k)
Attachment: bottom_joint_800.jpg (40k)
Attachment: top_emblem.jpg (271k)
I purchased this for that auction site some time ago, and haven't had it overhauled yet; it needs pads, corks and springs. I fell in love with the color of the bell, thinking I might use it on another horn, but now am thinking I should have it put into playing condition.
I thought it was a HP Bb simple system from the 1880s, but after some research, I am not sure that is correct.
I have looked at several old threads on this forum for similar clarinets, and could not find one exactly like this one.
I will upload several pictures; if anyone can tell me what I have, I will certainly appreciate it.
Gary K
Post Edited (2013-12-17 18:14)
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Author: modernicus
Date: 2013-12-18 02:04
That's probably about right-I have a similar one also missing the barrel. I believe yours does not have the patent C# as mine does. Not particulaty rare, special or valuable but I think they are interesting and worth saving.
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Author: gkern
Date: 2013-12-18 15:25
modernicus and Chris - thanks for the input. I neglected to show a pic of the barrel, but it is included, and is 60mm.
Chris - I notice our horns have different levers and keys for the right hand pinkie keys. Your horn is awesome, love the metal tenons.
Gary K
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Author: gkern
Date: 2013-12-18 16:46
Chris J - the JTLs are pretty close, with some keying differences, but this gets me pretty close to its heritage.
Thanks for the link to the catalogue - what a wealth of information!
Not sure if HP or LP, but I think I will have it restored and learn to play it.
Gary K
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Author: Chris J
Date: 2013-12-18 16:53
Mine is HP, keyed to C, so of historical interest only!
Chris
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Author: modernicus
Date: 2013-12-19 01:15
One pf my Boehm system JTLs from the era has the metal sockets as well. The difference in keywork has to do with the patent C# mechanism I believe. With a ~60mm barrel you're going to be high pitch.
Post Edited (2013-12-19 02:23)
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2013-12-19 02:28
http://www.woodwindforum.com/forums/showthread.php?5138-Martin-Freres
From this illustration from a JTL catalogue of 1890 it looks as though you have a No 27.
Tony F.
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Author: gkern
Date: 2013-12-19 03:23
Tony - close, but throat A/Ab keys not quite same; mine has 88 inscribed on the bell, I think that might mean it is an 1888 model, or an earlier versionof 27 in the 1890 catalog. But that does help to define it.
Gary K
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Author: modernicus
Date: 2013-12-23 15:13
With a 60mm barrel and offset pad cup on the lower joint, it is high pitch.
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Author: gkern
Date: 2013-12-23 23:05
I really appreciate all the input. Looks like I need to have it rehabbed and see how it plays.
Silver Scorcerer- I had bought a set of Gunckels at an estate sale and since have sold them. My research on them indicated a possibility that they were Buffet stencils. However, with the similarities to my JTL, could it be that at least some of them were Thibouville stencils?
Gary K
Post Edited (2013-12-23 18:06)
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2013-12-23 18:14
gkern wrote:
> could it be that at least some of them
> were Thibouville stencils?
>
or Couesnon; there are alot of similarities to those as well
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Author: gkern
Date: 2013-12-24 00:41
cyclopathic wrote:
> or Couesnon; there are alot of similarities to those as well
>
Please don't get me started on my pre-Conservatoires Monopole...
Gary K
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Author: Chris J
Date: 2013-12-24 04:11
Gary - please, get started on your pre-conservatoire Monopole! (Or perhaps a thread of its own...)
I have 2 Monopole Conservatoire clarinets (approx 1950s and 1960s)
But pre-conservatoire Monopole I have
Bb sop
Eb sop
C sop
And double walled metal clarinet
Oh- and Bari sax
Er - and a euphonium
And a gold plated "Super Monopole" alto sax
And I suppose I should declare my Monopole Conservatoire:
Sop sax x2
Alto sax x3
Tenor sax x2
Bari sax
And trumpet
And flugel horn
Look what you've done. You got me started!!
Chris
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Author: gkern
Date: 2013-12-24 07:49
Wow, Chris J - that's a lot of Monopoles...
Bet the eefer particularly is neat.
Gary K
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Author: modernicus
Date: 2013-12-24 23:19
I have some doubts Henry Gunckel is a Buffet Stencil. Why would they sell under somebody else's name for pro instruments when they have always been the standard for Boehm clarinets at least? Some c. Early 1900's H.G. Boehms had completely round trill key guides, completely different than the sharp ones on Buffets and some had sharp. One that I saw pics of looked more like some clarinets labeled Auguste Buffet. Also, I have a c. 1900 Clarinet marked Carl Fisher with the logos sanded off except for"Excelsior" written in an arch, precisely the same as some old Couesnons but the keywork is identical to a Buffet of the era in every way that I can tell . I recently saw pics of an Auguste Buffet metal clarinet that looks like one I have seen marked Couesnon. It is difficult to tell what the heck the relationship was, but it seems more likely Couesnon made many of these instruments as they are known to have made stencils.
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2014-02-11 08:44
Attachment: $_57.JPG (119k)
modernicus wrote:
> I have some doubts Henry Gunckel is a Buffet Stencil. Why
> would they sell under somebody else's name for pro instruments
> when they have always been the standard for Boehm clarinets at
> least? Some c. Early 1900's H.G. Boehms had completely round
> trill key guides, completely different than the sharp ones on
> Buffets and some had sharp. One that I saw pics of looked more
> like some clarinets labeled Auguste Buffet. Also, I have a c.
> 1900 Clarinet marked Carl Fisher with the logos sanded off
> except for"Excelsior" written in an arch, precisely the same as
> some old Couesnons but the keywork is identical to a Buffet of
> the era in every way that I can tell . I recently saw pics of
> an Auguste Buffet metal clarinet that looks like one I have
> seen marked Couesnon. It is difficult to tell what the heck
> the relationship was, but it seems more likely Couesnon made
> many of these instruments as they are known to have made
> stencils.
I just spent 1/2hr comparing Henry Gunkel, Triebert, A Fontaine-Couesnon and Couesnons from Phil's site. While they had been made in different era and have differences (Gunkel has wrap around registry key, A Fontaine separate posts for G#/A) they definitively have too many similarities to make me believe they were made by the same mfg.
Same shape of C#/G# key, identical cutouts on lower joint, similarly drilled toneholes, interchangeable keys, pin in hole left pinky keys on shared post with identical cutout, the same thumb rest (attached), identical tenon rings and so on.
Now if Gunkel was store brand, it is possible they might have sourced them different suppliers, so there might be ones made by Buffet; but the one I have is def Couesnon.
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