 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: AAAClarinet
Date: 2013-10-18 07:38
I haven't seen a recent post about wood mouthpieces. Those of you that play them ( Paul Aviles ) how are they holding up. do they still play and sound the same. Im thinking of getting a Greg Smith wood mouthpiece and am looking for current ( long term ) info. Thanks
AAAClarinet
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2013-10-18 12:58
No experience with wood mouthpieces to share, but a question (which is the similar to one I often ask of posters who ask about changing equipment in general): what is it about a wood mouthpiece that you expect to be an improvement over standard hard rubber ones?
I ask this not to be argumentative or critical - I guess the fact that Greg Smith makes wood mouthpieces is testimony that they aren't simply outmoded antiques. Still, as far as I know, Greg himself doesn't use one.
Your question only concerns the mouthpieces' durability, so I assume you already have a favorable opinion about the way they play when new. Does wood offer qualities that aren't available in rubber?
Karl
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2013-10-18 13:38
Hi Karl,
Several years ago I bought a cocus wood mouthpiece from Greg Smith. It's a great mouthpiece that I've been meaning to revisit.
At the time Greg told me that his wood mouthpieces were the primary ones he preferred to use. Perhaps I'm in error on that, but that's what I recall.
If we keep mentioning his name I feel certain he'll pop in and give us the benefit of his opinion!
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-10-18 14:42
I've used quite a few wooden mouthpieces over the years. This started some time back when I played Oehler system Wurlitzers. The Germans use(d) wood for mouthpieces more than we do.
The comparison there (amongst the German mouthpieces) was that the wooden mouthpieces took out some of the upper partials, lending a mellower patina to the sound. This was, to a degree, at the expense of projection but not to the point where it made it undesirable in performance situations.
I had two Hammerschmidt mouthpieces one of African blackwood and the other of Cocobolo. The Cocobolo had a more pronounced sound, but after almost a year, a crack developed straight up the center of the table (also causing the wood at the crack to swell upward, completely ruining the mouthpiece). The African blackwood model even survived a flood (was in a pool of mucky water for weeks!!) and played reasonably well afterwards.
After those, I had some great success with the wooden Pomaricos (not readily available in the US but they are pretty popular in Korea). Out of four of those one also developed a crack up the center of the table but has since been pinned and has had NO further problems.
I am a firm believer in using bore oil on clarinets and have in more recent years imposed the discipline on the wood mouthpieces. I would say that if you bore oil (keep up light coats until the oil does not disappear over night) regularly and treat the mouthpieces (humidity wise) like a reed, you should have no problems with them.
My Greg Smith cocobolo is in a class by itself. This was a remarkable mouthpiece until I broke it (silly incident). I don't necessarily think it has too much to do with it being wood, but of the 15 or so of his mouthpieces I tried at the time (most of them hard rubber) it was by far the best.
I did find a Zinner cocobolo mouthpiece from another dealer that had many of the same characteristics but it does not handle nearly as well in the upper reaches of the clarinet range. Greg Smith has a knack for imposing refined (and ACCURATE) dimensions on the full lay of his mouthpieces.
...................Paul Aviles
Post Edited (2013-10-18 20:02)
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Author: AAAClarinet
Date: 2013-10-18 14:48
Karl,
I know that Greg Smith makes some outstanding mouthpieces. If I can find the perfect one for me that's great. If that perfect one is a wooden mouthpiece all the better because I like the uniqueness. Again, the one I get doesn't have to be wood, but to me it would be a plus. I will be speaking to Greg Smith about his mouthpieces to better understand what would be appropriate for me. Then hopefully I will get to try a few.
AAAClarinet
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Author: ruben
Date: 2013-10-18 16:12
My experience of the wooden Pomarico was that it varied from one day to the next, just like reeds vary. As I also vary, that makes for a lot of variables! Maybe I should give wood another try, though. I am intrigued by what people have said on this this thread.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Wes
Date: 2013-10-18 21:59
I have a Buffet wood mouthpiece but I don't use it. A friend of mine uses a wood Mitchell Lurie mouthpiece but I have not tried it.
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2013-10-19 19:43
kdk said:
"Still, as far as I know, Greg himself doesn't use one."
--------------------------------------------------
Not in the CSO - the type of sound and style mouthpiece made of hardwood doesn't fit into that SPECIFIC acoustical setting (Orchestra Hall, the CSO woodwind sound, etc).
This doesn't mean that it wouldn't fit other orchestral, chamber, and solo settings.
For what it's worth, the last couple of solo and chamber concerts I've played were on one of two hardwood mouthpieces that I have set aside for myself. I have also been fortunate enough to acquire early 20th century Buffet M'Pingo mouthpieces that I have altered slightly for my own playing purposes.
All of these mouthpieces are, without qualification, my favorite mouthpieces that I play outside of the CSO.
Whether that's because they are of hardwood or not, it's simply not something I am able to determine in a definitive fashion.
There is extensive speculation about this in the archive which I and others have written about that may be informative.
Gregory Smith
http://gregory-smith.com
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2013-10-19 20:08
Greg, specifically with the hardwood mouthpieces, who makes the blanks? Are they machined similarly to rod rubber, or is forming the internal shape a whole other process? Are yours a proprietary design?
Karl
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-10-19 21:46
I also own an early 20th century Buffet M'Pingo mouthpiece. When I got it, it was unplayable.
Kalmen Opperman told me that the wood was dry and that it needed to be soaked for a year in (boiled) linseed oil. I did that and took it to Kal, who turned it into what he said is one of the finest mouthpieces he has ever made. It's my strongly preferred mouthpiece for chamber music, with a complex, perfectly centered tone. To avoid scratching, I tie the reed on with string.
Ken Shaw
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Author: AAAClarinet
Date: 2013-10-20 23:53
Just had a conversation with Mr. Greg Smith. Wonderful person to speak with, very helpful and informative.
AAAClarinet
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2013-10-21 15:46
Check Zinner's website. Wood blanks (of coco and m'pingo it looks like) are available. I'm not sure if these are what Greg uses, but wood blanks are available.
Expansions and contractions due to temperature can negatively effect intonation and overall design as it changes. The overall mellower sound has also left these mouthpieces as more of a curiosity to the clarinet world than an established serious option. This is the trend, and I'm not sure that it's entirely off the mark either...
I have tried a variety of wood mouthpieces and while I find them playable, I think you can find a better and more stable mouthpiece made out of hard rubber or various other materials.
Naturally, all depends on what you need and what you like. It's obviously possible to play these mouthpieces well, otherwise Greg wouldn't be using or selling them. It's always a good idea to offer a variety of options to the consumer, so many may prefer these mouthpieces.
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2013-10-21 18:11
Zinner is the maker and supplier of all hardwood mouthpieces including those to Pomarico and others. He makes them to specs requested and keeps those specs proprietary to the buyer.
The billets of hardwood he possesses have gone through approximately 40 - 50 years of natural (not kiln dry) aging and are the finest specimens of their kind that I have encountered.
If modern clarinets were made of this quality and similarly aged material, they would be many times more stable and consistent in texture and in evenness of grain - that is if you could see the grain at all. No stain is needed.
In my observation, stability of dimensions have not been an issue for this reason, having not received one mouthpiece back of many hundreds with any negative observations about the hardwood moving.
As to the question of tone quality and playability:
Any mouthpiece, including hardwood mouthpieces, carry with them the characteristics of the maker.
I (and probably most others) can make a good hardwood mouthpiece that would sound to most listeners as having more color and ring in the sound than any ebonite mouthpiece and vice - versa. The material in those cases are not at issue.
The main differences, beside the quality of the hardwood itself, are the affect on sound, etc, that DIMENSIONS impart on the overall result. (This is true of ebonite mouthpieces too but that is not germane to this thread - one can use the search engine for those discussions).
If cared for properly, they have the life of any ebonite mouthpiece - those who's makers suggest "touch - ups" on a regular basis.
Gregory Smith
http://gregory-smith.com
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