 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2013-08-18 20:29
We just began rehearsals last week fro our adult concert /cpommunity band. All the usual suspects returned from about 5 weeks off, and so the first rehearsal (with a new conductor, no less!) was a little rough.
The problem I noticed was with our third clarinet part. Iplay the principal 2nd, but I was sitting nearer the center of the section last week, and right in fronto ofthe last two thirds. Last week, we only had three thirdclarinets,so this was particularly obvious. These two guys seem to be there primarily for the socializing and "good timne" aspects of being in the band. They never practice, rarely use nore than 1-2 reeds in a season, and generally don't maintain their instruments.
Our principal third is a decent player. He actually has his own jazz/dance band and plays professionally. Last week, he had finally had enough. He asked the other 2rd players to stay after rehearsal,and spoke to them about their incredibly bad intonation. They are NEVER in tune, and the section sounds terrible because of that. He made a few suggestions to them about practicing and working long tones,but I have a feeling these guys will just shake off the suggestion.
My question: At what point does the liability imposed by bad players justify asking them to get better or leave the group? As I am not section leader, it probably is not my place. The principal 1st is also the president of the band,and it would probably fall to her. We really want to give the new candidates for Music Director the best cghance to perform well with thebandm, as this entire season will involve "auditions" of candidates conducting us in our concerts. We have been jn existence for more than 35 years, and I think we are trying to take the level of playing up another notch or two. With players like this, that will be almost impossible.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2013-08-20 17:40)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2013-08-18 21:09
This is always a tough call in a community ensemble where the individuals' playing levels are widely different. What is the general feeling about the band's purpose? If it's a social event for a majority of the players, you may be the one who is in the wrong ensemble. If the general attitude is to be serious about the group's performance level, someone needs to be empowered to put pressure on the players who are holding the group down either to take the need to improve seriously or find another place to socialize. That *should* be the music director, and if you don't currently have one, you may need to wait until one is appointed and is armed with permission in advance by whoever (committee or individual) decides on the appointment to encourage anyone who doesn't play at a high enough level to stop attending.
The conductor, of course, can most easily do this simply by calling attention to problems consistently enough that the players in question get tired of being criticized. Where there's no pay or contract involved, it only takes a little chutzpah on the conductor's part, easier if he knows he has the approval of the powers that be. Section leaders can do the same thing, but as players they most probably are there to enjoy the musical experience and not to become enmeshed in dramatics.
On the other side of this is the possibility that weak players in a community ensemble are usually more easily neutralized by having stronger players around them playing the same part. Sometimes that can pull them along to playing at a higher level themselves or, at least, cover them up so their playing isn't as noticeable or impactful. But to do that you have to recruit more good players so there are enough to beef up the 3rd part, perhaps on a rotating basis so no one feels stuck.
Karl
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-08-18 21:27
That's why they're 3rd section players. They have little talent and don't care.
There's nothing wrong with talking to the band director and the 1st chair player, who will explain that everyone is there to play. Socializing comes at the breaks. The 1st chair player can also ask/demand to check their clarinets and put on fresh reeds.
Politically, you need to get the band director and 1st chair player on your side before doing anything, though an occasional glare and shush are OK if they don't start a fight.
If you have nine players without them, or in a pinch, six, the band will be better off without the deadwood. There will be a political problem, though, if the player at the bottom of the 1st section has to move to 2nd, and the bottom 2nd player has to move to 3rd.
Maybe the band director can decide that one of the bad actors is needed on alto clarinet and the other is needed on contra, and make sure that they're widely separated.
Ken Shaw
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2013-08-18 21:40
Common situation;rarely required too much for me to bear. If so, I would find another band. Played in many over 70 years.
richard smith
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Author: marcia
Date: 2013-08-18 22:29
I found myself in a similar situation at one time. I was there intending to make the best music possible. I discovered that was not the attitude of all the others. Eventually I decided that I was in the wrong group and moved on. But if you have been with this group for a while and feel some loyalty it can be a difficult thing to do.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2013-08-18 23:17
Well, we have4 firsts (one doubles on eefer, 3-4second,and 3-4 thirds,pluss occasional bass (1 or 2). Everyone from the principal third on up is fairly serious about making decent music.
I thinbk I might not exactly have made myself clear. I didn't mean that they spend the night yakkibng away (that is more a problem with trumpets), but rather,that they don't seem to realize that they are there to play decent music. The read-through of music for our October concert looks to be a little challenging.
About the only time I canbelieve that they practice at all is when they warm up prior to our group rehearsals or they silently finger some of the parts they have not been able to master, while the conductor is working with other sections. Since we will be having a series of conductors this year, a different one for each concert, it will be difficult to get consensus here. I know our section leader is unhappy with these guys, too. Whether she will be demanding more from them this year remains tobe seen.
Thaks for all the replies. One other possibility is to move someone from the seconds into the thirds for a bit of time, but that leaves the seconds short. I moved down to principal third a year or so ago, when there were a few exposed solos in the third clarinet part.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: gkern
Date: 2013-08-19 00:14
Speaking as a third chair clarinetist, I can only say that everyone in our community band takes playing very seriously; that includes the other instruments as well.
Since I have only been playing less than 4 years after a 53 year absence, I am not that proficient, but I try to master each selection. Even with some of my finger joints becoming arthritic, I am able to play most parts satisfactorily, even the long long 16th note passages in Dance of the Comedians. My approach is to practice the more difficult parts over and over between rehearsals (and continue to work on the scales daily). And, during concerts and even rehearsals, I soften my tone and let the better players carry the harder parts if I have doubts on my ability to play them correctly.
There were only two of us (third chairs, no 1st or 2nd) at a rehearsal a while back, and the Conductor had the clarinets (the 2 of us) play a semi-difficult passage; we performed flawlessly to the surprise of a few folks!
Am I a third chair player? Yes. Do I enjoy playing in the band? Yes! Would I stop playing in the band if I felt I was detrimental? Yes. Would I like to move up to second chair? Only if I felt I could play the parts flawlessly (although the Section Leader does slip me some 2nd parts on occasion).
I have a hard time understanding why anyone would not take playing in a band seriously and give it their best - and practice, practice, practice!
Gary K
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2013-08-19 00:48
Gary, this is the same problem I have with these people. It doesn'tmatter what part you play, you should play it as well as is possible. It is when a person doesn't even bother to try, thathas me (and the principal 3rd) a little hot under the collar.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: Philip DeVries
Date: 2013-08-19 16:36
"That's why they're 3rd section players. They have little talent and don't care."
Well, not all of us! I agree that any band is better off without folks who don't care. And there may be a few folks who are actually incapable of improving. Easing those folks out can be tricky, and I don't know how to do it. But I wonder how many people that really includes. Certainly not all 3rd section players.
I expect community band standards vary a lot from place to place. My (fairly decent) community band performs about 20 times per year, and has a lot of less-than-professional musicians who DO care. The band accepts, even seeks, musicians who are earnestly working and improving, even if their musicianship is still less than stellar. (Average High School proficiency is more or less the minimum standard.) I think most of our musicians want to improve and contribute positively, and will work for that.
Some years ago, joining as a 3rd clarinetist, I secretly worried that someone would stand up in rehearsal, point to me, and say "THERE, he's the one impersonating a clarinetist!" If that had actually happened, I would have probably quit the instrument. However, a few discrete inquiries and it was clear that in this particular band, serious amateurs were welcomed.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2013-08-20 05:28
This sounds like an excellent opportunity to have a side rehearsal just for the clarinets.
Try just playing chords. Bring in one player at a time and coach the new addition to "tune up." Go through a bunch of keys, major and minor. Talk about and demonstrate the biases needed with the third to make things sound sweet.
Then, play arpeggios slowly with each section starting on a different note of the chord.
I witnessed this going on at Cellobration at Eastern Washington University a few years ago and was amazed at how well it worked.
One thing is that it makes everyone aware of their tuning, and done correctly, it has no symptoms of snottiness toward the players who were not previously aware.
As a secondary exercise, get out a tuner and have the players check their basic tuning all over the horn. Open G, C4, C5, F5, ... Point out that most clarinets benefit from pulling at the barrel and middle joint --sharing the lengthening. Maybe do this with a player who is having more trouble tuning in one register than another.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-08-20 10:22
You should see the mentality of some Royal Naval volunteer band members - it seems they're mostly there for the socialising, drinking and shagging other band members, volunteer band instructors or other RM bandsmen (married or otherwise) rather than putting any effort in what they're meant to be there for as the music aspect is clearly an insignificant afterthought. And they wonder why they get marked so low at the yearly band festival for their poor performance.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2013-08-20 10:30)
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2013-08-20 13:57
My solution, if I were in a position where I had sufficient authority to impose it, would be to rearrange the clarinet section. To strengthen the thirds, I would move one of the seconds to third, placing him/her between the two offenders, who might then be pulled along by the stronger players. To avoid weakening the seconds, I would also move one of the firsts to second. IMO, given your total number of clarinets, you don't need four firsts, even if one is playing Eb parts. Three strong players (or two plus Eb) is enough. If I thought that "demoting" players might cause morale problems, I would rotate the players who dropped down from first to second and second to third. An alternative, if all the firsts are all strong and more interested in the overall band product than the part they get to play, would be to ask the firsts (other than the concertmaster) to take turns on third. Actually, as I look at this, I think I like the second solution better.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2013-08-20 16:29
Speaking from experience, any effort to change a section in a community band that is all volunteer and audition free will only earn you a barrel of resentment from many members.
If the quality of performance is that important to you, why not try to create a supplemental wind ensemble with the advanced members of the ensemble? It would open members up to new possibilities and perhaps give you and others extra tolerance when it comes to players in the in the regular band who don't work as hard as you do.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2013-08-20 17:42
James, we already have such a group, but their appearances in concert are very limited. As a board member of the band, I an worried about the overall quality of the larger ensemble. I am striving to keep it high, so as to retain audience.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-08-20 18:01
In one local(ish) concert band I play oboe in, the clarinets tend to change seats nearly every time we rehearse or do concerts and they have three players who take it in turn to play solo clarinet depending on who's available.
Since I last played with this band, they have a very strong clarinet section compared to last time I played with this band back in 2006. The biggest change was having a musical director who actually does the job instead of the last one who really couldn't be bothered.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlveR2naD8M
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: gkern
Date: 2013-08-20 19:00
Very nice rendition of Les Miz, Chris. Our band just played it in a concert - what a fun piece to play; if a musician can't really get into the last part (Do You Hear the People Sing?), they're not totally alive!
Sounds like you have a group of very talented and confident musicians.
Gary K
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Author: john4256
Date: 2013-08-20 19:41
Hi Chris,
What a great rendition from the band. Where can I purchase the score and parts in the UK? If you could give the full details I would be grateful. It sounds just the job for my Wind Band.
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2013-08-20 22:37
As a board member you are in a position to do more. Go to your director and ask him about how to address the issue. Usually directors are in charge of the artistic management of an ensemble. The next thing you can do as a board is amend the bylaws to maintain an artistic standard.
But really, perhaps all it will take is the director having a conversation about expectations with those members. Most of the time a grown up won't insist that they should be able to play poorly to the detriment of other members...
I really applaud you for being concerned about the overall quality of performance. I don't see that enough in volunteer organizations.
James Garcia
Bass Clarinet/Clarinet III, Des Moines Symphony Orchestra
Post Edited (2013-08-21 01:38)
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Author: bbillings
Date: 2013-08-21 16:32
As a professional though not a professional musician, and a 3rd chair community band clarinetist, I think the question is more about leadership than clarinet playing. I think Bob Phillips made a wonderful suggestion. Invite and include if possible and assist. Certainly sounds like the most appropriate first action. Reprimand or ask to vacate as a last resort. "Community" shouldn't be lost from the title of the band. These exist to give a musical outlet and aren't about being exclusive per se. In my area, Greater Phoenix, there are plenty of paid or professional ensembles to join if you want to audition for exclusivity and think you are up to the task. But be prepared, these are truly gifted musicians and competitive. How you go about the inclusion/exclusion is just a detail. It shows more personal strength and resolve to include and work with to develop than to exclude. If your community band is like ours, fresh blood and growth are an important factor to consider as the turn over is relatively high. We have several very good clarinetists in their 70s and 80s but the band will hopefully carry on after they have left us. And to that point, one of those professionals plays the 3rd chair to assist those who are new to the band or not up to their full potential. He shows a tremendous lack of ego and enjoys the music not entirely for the challenge. He gets his challenges playing professionally outside the band and is a lifelong music educator. Those are my thoughts, hopefully they are helpful.
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Author: JonTheReeds
Date: 2013-08-21 16:54
As a mediocre (but hopefully improving) clarinet player I am privileged to be able to play in a couple of local wind bands. One of them pretty much takes anyone while the other is a bit more choosy
Playing in these bands is such a great incentive - as well as tremendous fun - to keep on practising that it would be a huge blow if I was told I couldn't carry on because I wasn't up to the (new and improved) required standard
The level of music is good in both bands - there are fantastic players including quite a few teachers, as well as those like me who are routinely challenged by the level of music - and we play to our strengths. I have heard several amateur ensembles who play more challenging music, but play it badly. I think the bands I play in get the balance right, at least for me
I am perhaps lucky to live in an area where there are also amateur ensembles where grade 8/music degree/masters is just the entry requirement and it is strictly on audition. Perhaps the OP doesn't have this open to them
I do know of an ensemble in the area that has a minimum of Grade 8 to audition, but that actually, according to someone I know who has depped in it, most of the players are perhaps just scraping Grade 6 - perhaps an example of an ensemble that is trying to improve its level
--------------------------------------
The older I get, the better I was
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-08-21 17:07
I think Southdowns recommend a minimum of Grade 6 for all players, although I've never taken any grades on oboe or sax and there are others who've never taken any grades either but want to get more playing experience on their 2nd (or 3rd) instrument.
I have done all my grades on clarinet, but rarely ever play it in concert bands as there are usually so many clarinet players there anyway. I perfer orchestral clarinet playing as I'm not a huge fan of doubling up on parts - I find that very restrictive if the next player plays just the notes and not the music.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Veldeb
Date: 2013-09-11 20:09
We rotate parts through our strong section - A/B/C rather than first/second/third and have strong (professional level) to former high school only in each group switching around the first/second/third parts on each piece. Eventually, we improved overall intonation by sitting like parts next to each other and broke up the weaker players who were tending to sit together and not practice and "dog it" on 3rd parts. Some of the deadwood left when the actual rehearsals time became music making time and breaks and after rehearsal dinners etc were the social gathering time. We're non-audition except - if you miss 3 rehearsals, the section leader/director reserve the right to audition you on passages from the music for the concert and decide if you can play. Good luck!
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