 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: alexrm78
Date: 2013-04-27 23:03
I am posting my recent experience with Dave here as a warning to anyone thinking about sending him their instrument(s) for repair / overhaul.
I was looking for a new Bass Clarinet towards the end of last year and after reading many reviews and lots of web searching I came across Dave Spiegelthal in Centreville, VA. Dave had written a fairly comprehensive review of the new Ridenour Bass Clarinet, among others, and his name kept coming up on the Clarinet forum (Clarinet BBoard) as a reputable and knowledgable player and repair tech. I called Dave and we spoke several times about what I needed in an instrument and he recommended picking up an old Kohlert and having him overhaul it and make several modifications to it. I kept my eyes open for one of these horns and Dave ended up e-mailing me a link to an eBay auction which I bid on and won the horn. I shipped the horn out to Dave pretty soon after I received it and once he had opened it, inspected it and played it, he sent me an e-mail detailing the work that he recommended doing (full re-pad, extend & re-angle neck, tone hole venting, install floor peg etc....) amounting to $535 + return shipping. I accepted his recommendations and Dave started to work on my horn.
Dave's communication was very prompt and clear through the whole process and I felt comfortable at this point that I was going to get a great playing horn back from Dave. Dave completed the work in about 6 weeks which was fine with me, I had told him that I was in no great hurry to get this done. I agreed to let Dave keep the old case to refurbish and he shipped the instrument back very well packaged. One the first inspection the instrument looked fine and seemed to play very well, with a nice, big, fat tone and I was very happy. After a little more playing I noticed that the secondary register mechanism wasn't working as it should, once the secondary vent (on the body) had engaged, the primary vent (on the neck) would no longer open fully making the upper register very airy, if it would sound at all. If I manipulated the vent open with my finger it was fine again until the secondary vent was engaged and then the same problem occurred. I e-mailed Dave about this and he got straight back to me suggesting that I loosten the screw on the mechanism slightly and if that didn't work, take it in to my local tech to take a look at. Loosening the screw didn't resolve the problem so I took it to my local teck to fix for me.
When I took it to my local tech, he found that the keys had been swedged so tightly throughout the entire instrument that they were binding and not operating properly. He also found 2 fairly large cracks that Dave had simply put some glue on inside the horn bur hadn't sealed them properly and they were both leaking, one on a tone hole. He showed me at least half a dozen leaks throughout the horn and although Dave had done a full repad as promised, he had use some particularly old pads that were already pretty dried out. Dave had also removed all the adjusting screws throughout the entire instrument in favor of setting the horn up with cork which made it extremely difficult to make the necessary adjustments, in fact, after working on it for almost 3 hours, my tech still couldn't get the register vents operating properly and didn't charge me for the time he spent on the horn. He recommended having the instrument completely stripped down, the cracks properly sealed, maybe the tone hole with the crack on it replaced and then having the entire horn re-built, replacing the adjustment screws if he could even find them. Essentially, doing what I had just paid Dave to do.
I sent Dave an e-mail that evening asking if I could ship the instrument back to him for him to finish the work that I had paid him to do as in its current condition, the instrument is unplayable. I didn't get a reply and since then have sent subsequent e-mails and left message on both his home and cell phones and he will not return any of my correspondence. At this point I have a little over $1300 into a horn that I cannot play.
So, a warning to anyone thinking about sending their instrument for repair, Dave Spiegelthal will not stand behind his work and take care of his customers if you have a problem. I learned this lesson the hard way, there are many other techs out there who will do great work and stand behind it.
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2013-04-27 23:36
It's unfortunate that you had a bad experience but I think it was in very poor taste to post this before you have even received a response to your complaint.
For the record I have done business with Dave Spiegelthal several times and have never found him to be anything other than honest. He has done overhauls on 6 of my clarinets including my bass clarinet and I have been pleased with the results each time.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2013-04-27 23:49
I am slightly surprise that you post a person's name in here before duly waiting for the affair to be settled. How long is it since that email and subsequent phone calls? A week, two?
I know David and his work, and I cannot imagine he'd leave you in the rain with an unplayable instrument.
--
Ben
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Author: bradfordlloyd
Date: 2013-04-28 00:31
I have interacted with Dave and done business with him on a couple of occasions. In both cases he was friendly, helpful, and delivered to me an outstanding product at a very reasonable price.
When he and I had a slight misunderstanding, he made it right and was true to his word. I'm sure that he'll do the same for you if you give him a chance to do that.
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Author: alexrm78
Date: 2013-04-28 00:40
I am still hoping that Dave will make this right however how long would you be willing to wait before you accept that that just isn't going to happen? I first notified Dave that there was an issue 2 1/2 months ago (2nd week of Feb.). That was when he suggested taking it in to my local tech. I was so busy that I didn't get to take it to my tech until March and I have been trying to get this resolved with Dave for over 5 weeks now. He returned all of my correspondence right up until the point at which I asked him to take care of this and stand behind the work that I had had him to do. Since then, I have sent several e-mails and left several voicemails and he won't return any of my correspondence.
So, I feel that I have given him plenty of time to resolve this matter and I have accepted that I wasted over $600 (incl. shipping) paying Dave a job that he did not complete satisfactorily and that if I want this instrument to be playable, I will have to spend close to the same again getting the work done correctly.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2013-04-28 01:43
Doing some quick searching, I can't help but notice that David hasn't posted to the BB since January. Does anyone remember his posting since then?
As I try to reconcile your experiences with his reputation (aside from conversing I don't know David personally) I find myself hoping that he's well.
James
EDIT: found a post of his from 3/21.
EDIT: found a SOTW post from 4/6.
SOTW says his last activity was 4/26, so I pretty much think I'm wrong with my guess. I obviously hope that the issues you've experienced are corrected or that David's side of the experience is clarified.
Gnothi Seauton
Post Edited (2013-04-28 01:54)
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Author: donald
Date: 2013-04-28 03:45
Many sensible and thoughtful posts above, I hope that this can be resolved. I would add, however, that I found the register exchange mechanism on the Kohlert bass I encountered (belonged to a student) to be nightmarish. In other aspects i found the bass to be an instrument easily better than newer plastic student models, but the register exchange mechanism seemed to have been designed by mad scientist from a 1950s movie, and even after work by a reputable tech was very unreliable.
dn
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Author: Wes
Date: 2013-04-28 08:04
May I respectfully suggest that the Las Vegas humidity and environment is far different from Daves on the East Coast. This could cause the binding of the mechanism and the crack to reopen. I've seen these effects on new clarinets. Gluing of cracks is common these days and often better than other ways of fixing cracks. The instrument played great when you first got before it was affected by the Las Vegas climate. I'm sure this will be resolved satisfactorily.
While I have two fine bass clarinets, the most resonant sounding one I've tried was a Kohlert belonging to a serious player friend. The wood was very fine. I did a lot of work on it including extending lower key levers, tuning, and fixing leaks. The register mechanism was a nightmare, so I made serious changes to it to make it always reliable. It now sounds wonderful, but still feels very clunky in my fingers.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2013-04-28 13:25
Bass Clarinets are a big pain in the *%%.
Almost never an easy task to fix, nor even diagnose - for the very best of them.
Good luck getting your problem fixed. I've always known David S. to be a good guy to work with, so hopefully your problem will get resolved.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: BobD
Date: 2013-04-28 13:31
I am amazed to hear such a report as it is the very first complaint I've ever heard on this BB about Dave's work. On the contrary, I've heard many positive reports about Dave's work......and Dave himself not only from strangers but also friends.
As they say, "there's two sides to every story".......
Bob Draznik
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2013-04-28 14:37
I had a very positive experience in dealing with Dave. He refaced a few crystal mouthpieces for me.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: alexrm78
Date: 2013-04-28 17:47
All these good reports of Dave's work is exactly why I decided to have Dave do this work for me. I see that Dave has been active on the SOTW forum a lot more recently than he has been here, I see posts from the first week of April and his most recent activity there is shown as this past Friday (04/26) so I know that he is around and online. A couple of weeks ago he called another tech. that I have done business with in Virginia asking about a car he has for sale. When he mentioned that he knew me and that I was trying to contact hime, he never heard back from Dave.
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2013-04-28 18:31
It just takes one unhappy customer to tarnish your name. Unfortunately for many people in the repair\mouthpiece work business, you never hear back from those who don't like the work (only trashed socially to other players, rather than a real complaint sent back to the person who did the work). In one sense, I think it's good to let things be known where the person has a chance to make good on his work (even if he avoided it for a while, not replying to emails and phone messages).
I'm reluctant to say you shouldn't trash someone on forums like this, but maybe it will be enough to get a reply from the person in question (who is usually on here?). It does sound like you just described what happened.
I hope it gets rectified soon. Sounds like someone over-extended themselves by either not being able to do the work, not having the time to do it (although 6 weeks should have been enough), or just didn't think you'd notice all the corners cut.
Good luck!
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2013-04-28 19:11
I have always allowed personal stories of both good and bad experiences here, though some think that the bad experiences shouldn't be on a forum. If that were true, then why should I let good experiences be broadcast? It wouldn't be fair, don't you think? Glenn and I sometimes even find out that in some cases - I don't think this one - the review is biased due to a business relationship - both positive and negative.
We all know that one awshit wipes out a hundred attaboys ... but that's the price every business pays.
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Author: alexrm78
Date: 2013-04-28 19:45
I don't feel that I have "trashed" Dave on this forum. I have given a very detailed step by step account of exactly what transpired. I have kept all our e-mail correspondence so that I have an accurate time frame and a record of exactly what was agreed upon. I have given Dave more than enough time to return my calls / e-mails before I posted this account. He asked me to pay him using the PayPal "personal" option to avoid the fees, but this has left me unable to file a claim through PayPal. At the time I was comfortable making the payment this way because of all the positive reviews of his work here and the ongoing communication between Dave and I. Hindsight being 20/20, if I had covered the fees on my end I would probably have been able to get my money back however now I'm still hoping that Dave does the right thing and takes care of this.
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2013-04-28 21:53
Contact my tech of many years, Larry Mueller in TN. He has a web site.
richard smith
Post Edited (2013-04-28 21:55)
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Author: Clarnetamaphone
Date: 2013-04-28 22:59
Mr. Spiegelthal (God forbid) may be suffering from health problems or some personal issue that requires his undivided attention, I dont know and no o s else sdems to either. im sure it must be a frustrating situation and based on everything I know about Mr. Spiegelthal this all seems very odd.
I'm simply saying lets not rush to any conclusion. Regards,
Ted Ridenout
Ridenour Clarinet Products
Ridenour Clarinet Products
1-888-AKUSTIK
ridenourclarinetproducts.com
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Author: alexrm78
Date: 2013-04-28 23:03
You're right Ted, Dave could be suffering from health problems, however if he is well enough to post threads on the SOTW forum and to e-mail enquiries about purchasing a car, than I would think that he would be well enough to reply to my e-mails, even it's a short, 2 line message letting me know what is going on.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-04-29 02:33
If an old instrument has dried out completely, absorption of moisture plus seasonal changes can quickly cause key binding and open up existing cracks.
Remember that alexrm78 says that the instrument played very well when he received it.
I hope David comes here to explain what he did and why. If anyone knows him personally, please refer him to this string and suggest a response.
Ken Shaw
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2013-04-29 03:34
I'm here and I'm OK, though I've been extremely busy. I have deliberately avoided responding to Mr. Jackson because he wants one thing from me -- a virtually complete rebuild, on my nickel, three months later, of an instrument which he purchased from someone else, that I painstaking overhauled and which played perfectly when it left my house. When the instrument was sent back to him I even stated then that I was slightly jealous because it played better than my own Kohlert. Mr. Jackson waited three months to first contact me about any problems and who knows what happened during those three months? Did he dunk the horn in the bathtub or leave it out in the rain?
Judge me if you like; no doubt I handled this situation badly. But the 'warranty' period is up and I have no time or desire to correct additional hidden flaws in an instrument I did not select, nor repair damage that the customer may have caused during a three month period.
That is all I'm going to say about this matter. I am not going to take the instrument back, Mr. Jackson can find a local technician to set it right.
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Author: alexrm78
Date: 2013-04-29 07:33
Well, this is what it took to finally get a response from Dave. As we can all see, he has deliberately been avoiding my calls and e-mails.
Well, first of all it was not 3 months that I waited to notify of a problem with the instrument, that is simply a lie. I received the instrument back from you on February 8th (Friday) and I e-mailed you on February 12th (Tuesday) to let you know that there was a problem with the register mechanism. So, 4 days, NOT 3 MONTHS! That is when you suggested loosening the screw on the mechanism and if that didn't fix it, take it to a local tech. Well, at that point I was extremely busy and get a chance to take it to my local tech until the next month. I e-mailed you on March 27th, 6 weeks later, once I had found the time to get to a local tech., detailing what the tech. had found. Now, admittedly, 6 weeks had past, I am not trying to hide that, but to suggest that I had "dunked it in a bath tub or left it out in the rain" is absolutely ridiculous and just reeks of your desperation in trying to absolve yourself of any fault here. During that 6 weeks, the horn sat in its stand in my home studio and didn't go anywhere.
As for me wanting a virtual re-build on your nickel, I never asked for that. Before the local tech looked at the horn all I wanted was for the register mechanism to operate properly so that I had an instrument in playing condition, after paying you $535 for an overhaul I think that is pretty reasonable! I hadn't found either of the cracks at that point and would have lived in blissful ignorance had the instrument played the way I expected it to. It wasn't until I took the instrument to a local tech., at your suggestion, that these other problems came to light. Even then, I e-mailed you the report from the tech. and asked if I could send you the instrument back to get it in playing condition. Yes, the local tech. had recommended that the horn was stripped down, the cracks sealed properly and then re-built, but I never asked you to do that, I asked for you to put it playing condition, something that I had already paid you to do. Is crack repair not part of an overhaul? If not, at the very least notifying me of these cracks during the course of an overhaul would have been the right thing to do.
As for not picking out the instrument, I never once claimed that you did, although you e-mailed me the link to the eBay auction, unsolicited by me, on Dec. 12th and recommended a price range that you thought would be a fair price for the instrument, along with a list of recommendations that you had for this instrument (re-angling and lengthening the neck, undercutting tone holes, replacing the register vent tube etc...), all before I had purchased the instrument and you had even seen it. That sounds like a recommendation to me! When you received the instrument you said that I had "scored a good instrument" and that it was "mechanically sound and generally in good shape" (direct quote from your e-mail). Well, that it definitely not the case now so what happened?
Yes, you did claim that once it was finished, the instrument played better than your own personal horn, you also e-mailed me on Feb. 5th to tell me that you had trouble getting the register vent mechanism to operate properly and that you had removed all the adjustment screws and replaced them with cork and teflon shims, I trusted your judgement on this but now having spoken to 3 different techs, they all say that this was the worst thing to have done as the cork compresses too much and not having the adjustment screws makes it virtually impossible to adjust the mechanism. In my last e-mail I asked you to mail these screws that you removed to an address in VA, I'm not expecting any kind of response from you but would you please at least return these screws to me?
So, there you have it, a breakdown of exactly what transpired and the time frame involved. At this point Dave has made it clear that he has no intention of making this right, if he is unable to complete the task that he was paid to do, which seems to be the case here, then I would expect my money to be refunded, again, something that Dave has made abundantly clear isn't going to happen. I am very disappointed that Dave has chosen to business this way and hope that no-one else gets stung my his dishonest and incompetent business practices.
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Author: clarimad
Date: 2013-04-29 07:40
People like alexrm78 disgust me and here in the UK would now be facing court action for libel and slander for using a public forum for such an outrage.
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Author: alexrm78
Date: 2013-04-29 07:51
Really, I'd be facing court action for "slander" in the UK? Well, I'm from the UK and know that you simply have no idea what you are talking about. Everything that I have posted here is the absolute truth and I have all the e-mail documentation and payment receipt to back it up, how is that slander? (Definition of Slander :- a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report). I disgust you? Why? Because I expect people to do the work that I pay them to do?
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Author: Red Chair
Date: 2013-04-29 10:08
It seems a shame that these two gentlemen could not sort out this transaction as gentlemen. There are no winners in this ugly dispute. The man with the broken clarinet has no working instrument and is out of pocket while the technician has had his previously good name trawled through mud.
While I take no sides in this argument it would obviously be best for the two men to speak in person to try to resolve this. Until then, I dare say many techs will want to avoid this customer and many customers will want to avoid this tech.
This matter also highlights the issue of using personal paypal accounts for business transactions and lack of recourse this method of payment offers the customer. To me this is an interesting side issue.
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