 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ned
Date: 2012-07-02 04:56
Would you play for this lot, for free, if you were asked? Not ME mate!
www.theleadingevents.com/?p=6538
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2012-07-02 11:33
Why not? Afterall, everything else there is free. The Olympians train, and make this their life's work, yet they don't get paid. The builders who make the stadium do it all for free. Nobody else gets paid. The electricity is all donated.........
;)
That's really messed up.
Even the Athletes get corporate sponsors, it's a multi million $ operation. To not pay the musicians is a joke.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2012-07-02 12:47
Don't get me started on this
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Campana
Date: 2012-07-02 13:14
...Don't get me started on this
Nor me. The corporate and sponsorship greed at this Olympics is the biggest breaker of records that this Olympics will see. Goes beyond greed and enters the realm of obscenity.
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Author: Bret Pimentel
Date: 2012-07-02 13:57
I of course agree that musicians SHOULD be paid for their services.
However, I quite happily played for free for an event at the Salt Lake City olympics a few years back. I was an undergraduate student and thrilled at the opportunity, and bragged about it to anyone who would listen. It so happens that it turned out to be a crucial formative experience for me--I got some good mentorship from some musicians I admired, and learned some valuable lessons about professional musicianship.
I think it's unfair to put ALL the blame on "the Olympics" for this unfortunate situation; why expect them to pay when musicians are willing or even anxious to do it for nothing?
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2012-07-02 14:47
The problem here is that your lowering your talents and ability. Once this happens promoters etc will expect professional players to play for free which has a knock on effect for fees eyc which will go down. No professional should have to work for free. That should be left to the amateur players.
If organisations want top professional players then they should pay for top professional . A plumber is not going to repair faulty pipes for free because it gives them a job...
Peter Cigleris
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Author: William
Date: 2012-07-02 15:51
If there was a possiblity of medaling, and if Buffet and Leblanc sponsered my equipement and training, and if my transportation and housing was all taken care of, maybe......I would play the gig for "free".
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Author: Wes
Date: 2012-07-02 21:10
Show conductors will sometimes seem insulted when one says regarding playing a free show, "No thanks, I've got a paying gig!". They seem to think that it an honor to pay a free gig, even when they charge admission to the show.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-07-02 23:11
I'd jump at it. Sometimes the honor of performing such an event is far more exciting then money. I've played plenty of gigs at no charge. Just seeing the smiles of people is sometimes worth more then money.
However I'm not a struggling musician. That could very well make a difference. If you have to pay for everything, the flight, food, hotel, tips, rental cars, and not be able to see any of the sporting activity, well that would make a huge difference in accepting this special honor.
I'd pass under these conditions. The Musicians Union must have said something.
Something about people always asking it you will play for free really bothers the heck out of me, unless the whole program is non profit. This includes the head people that often take some cash off the top.
Oh good, Peter sent some info
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2012-07-03 19:59)
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2012-07-03 12:57
Don't play for free. It screws up the business for the professionals you admire so much.
Drew S.
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Author: Dan Oberlin ★2017
Date: 2012-07-03 14:07
Wonder if Anthony McGill was paid to "play" at Obama's inauguration.
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2012-07-03 14:49
crude, rude and snobbery.
j butler
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Author: William
Date: 2012-07-03 15:31
That performance at Obama's afair by Anthony and others was pre-recorded, they were just faking it as "live". I kind of doubt that eminent ensemble donated all their studio recording time, not to mention showing up at the inaugarations--cold, crowds and all--for free. But, as my wife often points out, I could be wrong.
I often play free gigs if it's for a good cause and everyone else envolved is donating their time as well. However, if someone or some organization stands to profit from my performance, I demand renumeration in kind. IMHO, it's just fair.........
I do not consider myself a struggling musician, but rather a musician who struggles to stay relevant.....and enjoy what I do best.
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Author: Fishamble
Date: 2012-07-03 15:43
Quite honestly - I'd do it for free. But then the organisers would get pretty much what they'd paid for!
Peter said: "If organisations want top professional players then they should pay for top professionals"
Isn't that the crux of it? For top professionals, the organisers would *have* to pay; but they are seemingly willing to compromise. Maybe they'll regret the results they achieve.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2012-07-04 06:21
"Experience" and "Exposure" are words people use to get musicians to work for free, and, typically, also treat them like dirt at the same time. You'll have a full paid crew of sound, technical, maintenance, video, etc. at an event, but the "talent" will be working for peanuts if anything. A glut of capable and willing-to-work-for-free musicians and an impotent, self-serving union exacerbate the problem.
It's largely why I abandoned music as a career pursuit.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2012-07-04 07:19
> For top professionals, the organisers would *have* to pay; but they are
> seemingly willing to compromise. Maybe they'll regret the results they
> achieve.
You get what you pay for...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zh9ebSCZr1I
![[toast]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley15.gif)
--
Ben
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2012-07-04 14:28
I've heard so many people say the phrase, "I'd take that job, but I'd provide a substandard service." This mentality helps noone. It still takes the position from some otherwise competent performer. I tells these knuckleheads that this type of practice is acceptable in our community. And if you do get a lot of exposure in the public, a poor performance will turn a much needed audience away from good music. Now I'm not saying I haven't played for free in the past, and the business is getting to be quite a drag. It is a shame how they can take advantage of young talented artists.
Drew S.
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Author: Brent
Date: 2012-07-05 16:32
@Ben,
that's painful!
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2012-07-05 18:12
> "I'd take that job, but I'd provide a substandard service."
Yep. That's just plain wrong. There may be variations in pay, but there shouldn't be a variation in your own standards.
Do it right, or don't do it at all.
(My wife generally agrees with that attitude. What's still subject to debate is how eg vacuuming could be done "right". I mean, I suck at vacuuming, so...)
--
Ben
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Author: Buster
Date: 2012-07-05 19:15
Aside from the inequity in asking the "cream of the crop" to perform for free, there is a larger issue at hand.
If a person takes a "job" knowing before-hand that they will be providing a substandard performance, there is a two-fold disservice:
1. A job is "taken" from a competent performer. A yellow card is issued; and competency is quite subjective.
2. A greater harm is done as the weaker musicians are providing a poor product for an audience that is becoming decreasingly unable to discern what constitutes good music-making.
A poor performance really doesn't turn away the public; how are they even able to discern what a poor performance is if never exposed to an apt one?!
It would appear that the IOC is itself unable to discern the difference... otherwise they would not relegate music to the realm of an after-thought to the entire Olympic Ceremonies with their current financial practice.
Or more likely: they don't care.
-Jason
Post Edited (2012-07-05 19:16)
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Author: Fishamble
Date: 2012-07-05 23:15
Ahem...just for the record: lest what I said in my earlier post be misinterpreted, I meant what I said to be taken lightly - I'm an amateur, and that's the source of the comment about "getting what they paid for".
It amazes me that anyone would claim that they'd play at less than the standard they're capable of, for any reason. What's the logic? If they do the thing for free to publicise themselves, then they defeat the purpose. If they're doing it to get back at the mean promoters, well that's just sad. Do people who make a living from music really say this frequently?
(Loved the video, Ben. I'm wondering if the mustachioed director is spending some time in a gulag.)
David.
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Author: Buster
Date: 2012-07-06 02:23
Fishamble wrote:
> Do people who make a living
> from music really say this frequently?
>
The comment wasn't meant to be lobbed at you, so I apologize if it seemed so..
I don't know about the frequency, but there are some misguided souls that actually are comfortable dwelling in that realm of paid mediocrity.
They do a great disservice to the art as whole.
-Jason
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Author: sowilson
Date: 2012-07-06 19:06
I've played for free at charitable events. However, hauling amps, instrument insurance, wear and tear, restringing, setup – teardown, etc. I charge for – always.
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Author: Dick
Date: 2012-07-09 18:42
David Blumberg said he would play for food. In England?
Dick
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2012-07-09 19:55
An audience becomes increasingly unable to discern a poor performance.
An audience will be turned away from a poor performance.
You say potatoe, I say potatoe. That is unless you are assuming that the audience enjoys a poor performance. If that is the case, well then, I've spent way too much time doing the wrong thing. I do believe however that even though they are untrained, they know what they like to hear. If a poor musicians pawns himself off as professional, the mentality goes something like this:
1. Stupid concert goer sees poor clarinetist
2. Stupid concert goer does not enjoy the sound of poor clarinetist
3. Poor clarinetist says to audience including Stupid concert goer, "I'm a professional"
4. Stupid concert goer thinks to his/herself, "I don't like professional clarinetists, they sound terrible"
5. Stupid concert goer sees clarinet advertisement of a true professional clarinet player, and thinks to himself, "I didn't like the last clarinet professional, I'm not going to like this one"
This is just discussion, not directed at anyone.
Drew S.
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2012-07-09 21:56
Yum, fish cooked in ale batter and chips cooked in beef suet. (drool)
Peter Cigleris
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