 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: dann
Date: 2011-10-10 04:00
Hi there,
(Beware of my English)
This is probably one boring topic, but to me, it's a life changing. After been playing clarinet for years, in all professional levels, orchestras plus teaching, I've just paid one grand for an overhaul on my Bb. it's done by one of the great repairman in US, at least he is, to my tiny little knowledge. A week long process, 3 follow ups until I get what I want. Too much? I don't know, to me, yes, it's too much BUT worth it! The notes that never shine, sing beautifully now. 100s of fancy stuff have been applied to my clarinet. I won't talk about details since it's somehow subjective and not as interesting as the topic that I want to ask for all of your great opinions and experience.
I feel like this overhaul has just dug out my abilities that are hidden before, a life changing kind of ability. Without having to put extra works on playing as I did before for more than 10 years, my mind now become freer, better musical is the result. Now I can really focus on the music. I was so afraid of learning new piece, new music, but now I jump into any kind of music. Being more confidence really help me become a better musician. That's why one grand is worth it. It just like I spent them for a new me. Doesn't sound like I'm a professional clarinetist at all you may think, I agree, but believe me, I am but a not very smart one.
How many of you have this kind of experience, what's the most expensive you have ever spent on repair/overhaul your clarinet. And one last thing, for some of you who are teacher, would you consider "overhaul" better than getting the right mouthpiece, i.e. what would you suggest your student to spend on one grand? or would you suggest them to spend it on some other things? Your opinions will be greatly appreciated.
p.s. Again, sorry for my horrible English, it's not my mother language.
Best!
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Author: gwie
Date: 2011-10-10 05:02
I had my R-13 Bb and A clarinets overhauled by the Brannens back in 2003 (with some follow up maintenance visits ever couple years after before I sold the set to a student), and the difference after their work on them was ridiculous.
An overhaul, especially for a well-loved professional model instrument, is totally worth it, and costs much less than replacing it with a new one.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2011-10-10 05:43
I don't think the price is out of line if the instrument has been truly rebuilt and the difference in its responsiveness is as noticeable as you've described, especially if it's being used professionally. You pay for the time the repairman spent working on it, and his (or her) hourly rate reflects both his skill and the demand on his time that a high reputation brings. The clarinet's mechanism is complex with lots of little details that need fine, patient adjustment. If the technician's skill level warrants a high hourly rate, the time it takes to completely recondition an instrument can easily reach the level you paid.
Would I recommend that kind of work and expense for a student's instrument? Probably not, unless the student has very serious professional aspirations. And it shouldn't be necessary to spend that kind of money very often on any one instrument. That kind of detailed work should not be an annual or even biennial event. Done once, the instrument can be maintained afterward for a long time at a gentler cost by doing little things as they come up.
Karl
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-10-10 11:47
I can justify that - if it's a very thorough overhaul leaving no stone unturned (or no pillar unscrewed) and tidying up all the toneholes so they're free from defects to be able to seat cork pads onto them, thorough cleaning and polishing of the joints and all metal parts, cleaning and treating the toneholes and bore and getting the clarinet into a condition far better than it originally left the factory, then expect to pay a premium for premium quality work.
While some people may charge only a coulpe of hundred to perform a basic repad on a clarinet, some others go the extra few hundred miles and strip it right back to the bare bones and rebuild it again from scratch, making sure the keys all fit and work together properly (and correcting manufacturer defects along the way) so you end up with an instrument that's head and shoulders above its counterparts.
You get exactly what you pay for, so don't be tight if you want the best work done.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-10-10 13:49
The Brannens (and others like them?) are true artisans. It is not purely the mechanical but also the art of balancing just the right amount of spring tensions (rings can be VERY light but in conjunction with a heavier oil; keys should be as light as possible without sacrificing the seal during play or even the 'feel' under the fingers).
Once you get used to a horn the way it should actually play, the excitement wears off a bit. I would take the 'lesson learned' and work to maintain this excitement in you everyday practice and performance.
.....................Paul Aviles
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Author: Elkwoman46
Date: 2011-10-10 14:00
Dear Dann,
It sounds like your instrument has been perfected by a professional, and it is giving you a lot of joy.
Totally worth it in my opinion...to experience perfection...quite a lovely thought on the ears, I believe.
Enjoy it for all it is worth.
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Author: salzo
Date: 2011-10-10 14:32
I know certain repair people who charge a grand, and the work is not very good. And I know others who charge half that and the work is astounding.
Not all who charge enormous prices are artisans. Some are charlatans.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-10-10 16:04
I've had very fine work done by Susan Eberenz with all the bells and whistles (for example, leveling the pad rims and filling in the wood grain) for $200.
Ken Shaw
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2011-10-10 21:15
Please, was wood , or other material, either added or removed, as part of the overhaul?
richard smith
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Author: dann
Date: 2011-10-11 02:35
Thank everyone for sharing experiences and thoughts.
Just want to add a little more thought about this "overhaul". I am a kind of person who don't really believe in gears! (ligatures, mps, barrels nor bells) No offense, I don't mean to being rude, but as we all know, it's very subjective, so please forgive me.
I can hardly believe myself I did it. the general repad, cleaning, spring setting plus adjusting a little bit of this and that and that should do the work just fine and bring my clarinet back into "good working" condition again, no doubt, and it should cost me around 300-400$ max. But as I and the repairman have talked more and more about what else could be done to make it even "better" for example, using some fancy stuff instead of hot glue, using this kind of pad instead on that kind, and a lot more like that, make me want to experience it, so I went for it. I always believe that to be able to get the "best" sound out of my clarinet, it must be no gap at all between each joint, to make the instrument resonate at its best. So, to answer "rtmyth"s question, yes, a few piece of wooden rings was added to my clarinet just to eliminate all the gaps. It can go on and on forever about what the repairman has done to my clarinet, but the only thing that matter to me is that the one grand I spent is worth it.
Thank you very much again for all the thoughts, some make me feel really happy, some....not so happy (since you guys paid a lot less and probably get the same result as good as I get, ha ha ha).
Thanks!
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-10-11 03:04
I understand this totally. A real good repairman will take about 15 hours to overhaul a clarinet properly. Yes, it may take him ten, it may take him 20, depends on how fast he works and how through a job they do. If you consider what a great overhaul includes it shouldn't be shorter than that. Taking the horn apart, checking each tone hole and body for minute, tiny, cracks that the average eye can't even see and filling them in. Making sure every spring that is getting weak or has any rust on it is replace and adjusted. All the keys are cleaned and oiled. Any screw that is not fitting perfectly or shows any sign of wear should be replaced, my guy makes his own in his shop, all top quality pads installed and adjusted, I recommend cork in the top joint except for the 1/1 key. All corks, including the little ones under some of the keys replaced. All posts tightened or reseated, all rods checked to make sure they have no bends in them. Seating all the pads perfectly, I mean perfectly. Many now have a pressure tool to measure the pressure to assure a perfect seating of the pads. Polishing the keys and oiling the wood. I may have left something out. I know my guy takes at least 15 hours and charges by the hour. I usually then spend about an hour, no charge, getting all the key work adjusted to my feel when I play test. Except for a small adjustment or single pad replacement after a few years his overhaul last me about ten year on each of my instrument, Bb, A and bass. ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: wesrice
Date: 2011-10-11 13:37
I agree with Ed. To properly go over everything on a clarinet, it takes an average of 13-15 hours, depending on the condition of the instrument. Anyone charging $150 or $200 probably isn't taking the time and care that is necessary for a good overhaul (Proper key fitting, resurfacing tone holes, proper key heights, ring heights, key feel, etc...). Some places will call their process an overhaul, but it doesn't include the amount of labor needed to get everything perfect. I have seen this on Ebay instruments many times.
However, you can find technicians that will do the same amount of work and have equal quality standards for a lesser hourly rate. I believe Ed's repairman would charge around $75 per hour, so a $1000 overhaul would make sense. The cost depends on the overhead of the shop and supply and demand of the technician.
For $1000, you may have everything done to your instrument, but there are many people out there that will overhaul for less with the same standards.
Disclaimer: I am a repairman specializing in clarinet repair. I'm not trying to advertise my services, only give advice.
Wes
www.clarinet-repairs.com
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2011-10-12 00:23
The really great repairmen are worth taking your horns to.
It seems when a person buys a new clarinet, perhaps buffets, which I play on my, the first thing the person does is sends it out for a custom repair!
Frankly I totally agree with this.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-10-12 03:11
Yes Ken, it is Roger Young, top quality. And yes, he used to charge $75 an hour, he now charges $80. He is a master tech. He used to play clarinet in one of the service bands many years ago and also plays the flute. He took up making custom flute head joints years ago and a hobby and now as a business. His shop is very well equipped with just about anything you can think of. I love it when he makes me a screw on my 46 year old bass clarinet to get a perfect fit.
Bob, we don't usually disagree but I don't believe in having a new clarinet overhauled right away. If you buy a clarinet from someplace that has a good tech you shouldn't leave the shop until you get the action and keys adjusted to your likeness before you take the horn home. Then I believe in waiting at least a year, even two before getting it overhauled so you completely break it in before having that done. The only reason I would do it sooner is if the pads are not sealing well or the action goes out of wack but if it's a good horn and was properly adjusted that should not happen for at least the first year. I waited almost two years before getting my new Selmer overhauled though I did get a few adjustments after a few months. Certainly a new Buffet should have decent enough pads to last a year or more. ESP
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
Post Edited (2011-10-12 03:16)
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2011-10-12 05:20
Hi Eddie, and other board members,
I do my own clarinet work. I don't mess with intonation unless the notes are 10 cents off, so bring a tuner with you when buying a horn. Fine tuning comes later, sometimes 3 months to a year, depending on weather conditions, such as winter, very cold dry states, to the really rainy hot states. I actually do some basic things, which really isn't overhauling.
I cork the upper register. A few notes can be 10 cents or more off, such as the throat keys without adjusting the key height and adding cork pads.
Other then that I don't do much to a new horn, so I guess it's not truly overhauling for $1000. I will play the clarinet for a few days before changing the upper register from pads to cork, mainly because I want to have some fun with the horn for a few days. When you buy a new horn everyone wants to play it! Heck we are all kids when getting a beautiful horn.
Often a new Buffet, right out of the box, will usually have a few leaky pad issues with no repairmen around. Almost always these leaky pads are very minor. When testing pads I like to see/feel a 5 second hold on the key pads, before the pad pops up. This is when you know the horn is properly sealed and with cork pads you won't have to worry about these leaking.
The same day, when I get the horn, I do change the left hand octive thumb tube. It's too long. This is really the only thing I do right away. If anyone needs a tube for the "A" clarinet feel free in emailing me. This is for the Buffet R 13 "A" clarinet only. I'm not sure about the other Buffet lines such as the greenline. I'd have to measure that tube.That A clarinet A tube has always bothered me from the '70's. The Bb clarinet tube is fine. With the shorter tube that thug you hear goes away and the upper register stays wonderfully in tune. It's really cool. For the record I did not design this.
So Eddie, with the minor exceptions of cork pads and that "A" clarinet thumb tube we are actually thinking the same.
Wait for the horn to settle and break in.
I should have explained this in greater detail along with what overhauling is. Minor or major overhauling.
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Author: Ronish
Date: 2011-10-12 06:57
A $1000 has no meaning. It all depends on who has to pay it. For some of us it is a ridiculous amount to fiddle with a clarinet already working, for others with a lot of grands sitting idle it is probably peanuts.
Post Edited (2011-10-12 20:56)
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