 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: lis
Date: 1999-03-26 01:35
I just heard about the new Vandoren M14 mouthpiece. I was curious......has anyone played on it yet?
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Author: SeAn
Date: 1999-03-27 17:20
I 've not heard of the M14? a new product from vandoren???
could it be a M13 you talking about?
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Author: lis
Date: 1999-03-27 22:52
Nope, it's not an M13. (I play on an M13 now) It's a new mouthpiece - but it's in with the M13. I just found a little bit about it at www.vandoren.com but my lesson teacher had originally told me. I was just wondering if anyone had played it and what they thought about the difference between the two.(M13 and M14).
lis
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 1999-03-29 00:31
I acquired a Muncy catalogue,and found M means the first letter of a clarinettist in Philadelphia Philhamonic.They says M13=best of Kasper and Chedeville in one mouthpiece.
Kasper-cicero has Kasper#13.So,I guessed M13 looks like Kasper#13.Maybe M14=Kasper#14? This is my guess.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 1999-03-29 22:12
Hiroshi wrote:
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I acquired a Muncy catalogue,and found M means the first letter of a clarinettist in Philadelphia Philhamonic.They says M13=best of Kasper and Chedeville in one mouthpiece.
Kasper-cicero has Kasper#13.So,I guessed M13 looks like Kasper#13.Maybe M14=Kasper#14? This is my guess.
Hiroshi -
The "M" would be for Ralph McLane, who took over from Daniel Bonade as principal clarinet in the Philadelphia Orchestra in the mid-1940s and died in the early 1950s. He played pre-R-13 Buffets and a Chedeville mouthpiece. Everyone who heard him said he had the most beautiful sound of any clarinetist.
The original recordings of the Philadelphia Orchestra during his tenure were 78s, and the LP reissues, with dark blue labels, were not cut with the same RIAA response curve that came into use a few years later, and so they do not sound good without specialized electronic equipment.
There is, however, a modern reissue on CD of the Dvorak Cello Concerto with Gregor Piatigorsky as soloist and Eugene Ormandy conducting. The piece has many prominent clarinet solos, and you can hear McLane at his best.
I own a Lalandais/Chedeville and have played several others, along with Chicago and Ann Arbor Kaspers and various Vandorens, and I can tell you that the Chedevilles do not play like any of them. They have a *lot* of back pressure, and most of them are too resistant to play easily on an R-13. McLane's clarinets had a larger bore, and of course he had Hans Moennig available every day to make adjustments, bore new barrels and keep things working.
The upshot is that, with modern instruments, modern mouthpieces often work better than the old ones.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: clarinetfreak
Date: 1999-03-31 17:25
contray to what Ken Shaw said, I thought the M stands for Montanaro, the present clarinet player in the Philadelphia Orchestra. I also believe the 13 makes a connection to the Buffet R13 rather than the Kasper mouthpieces. (it was in the clarinet magazine)
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 1999-04-01 06:24
Dear Messrs.Shaw and clarinetfreak,
In Muncy catalogue(mouthpiece section),there is a box that says Vandoren and Montanaro developed M13 series together(Sorry I forgot the spelling of Montanaro in my previous writing).
"M13 came from not from Kasper#13 but from R13 seems right,since I glanced Mr.Forbes comparison tables and found no Kasper#14 as patched below:
Available facings Tip Opening Similar to
CF 0.96mm Chedeville/Matsen
0M* 0.98mm Kaspar 11
2M* 1.04mm Kaspar 13, B45
4L 1.12mm B40
As shown in this,Kasper#13 has 1.04mm tip opening,whereas M13 has different one 1.005mm and M14 1.01mm.(M13 Lyle 1.02 mm).Quite a small tips!
So,lis,anyway I only know the half of the naming legend of M series and have no experience to have played an M14.
(I ordered M13 Lyre and am looking forward to playing it.Lyre means harp (nebula).It explains Vandorens' markings to Lyre MPs.)
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 1999-04-01 06:32
Just one INFO:
I read in Gustav Langenus's part III,clarinet pitches become sharp when played in pp and this tendency becomes bigger the smaller the tip clearances of mouthpieces.
cf.Definitions of pitch and intonation:
Pitch depends on the instruments itself,where as intonation depends on the player.(Am I right,Ken?)
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 1999-04-01 17:15
Hiroshi wrote:
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* * *
Pitch depends on the instruments itself, where as intonation depends on the player. (Am I right,Ken?)
Hiroshi -
I don't think it's that simple. No clarinet can have perfect intonation. Even if you could design one to be perfectly in tune without any adjustments by the player, it would only be perfect for that player using that mouthpiece, that reed, at that dynamic level, at that temperature and humidity level and maybe that season of the year.
So you always have to adjust to play in tune.
However, a badly designed clarinet will be *way* out of tune -- too far out to be usable.
The best technicians can tune individual notes without throwing off the other register. Also, the best mouthpiece makers can fit a mouthpiece and barrel to a particular instrument and a particular player's embouchure so that the instrument plays close to in tune and keeps the player's adjustments to a minimum.
As you play, the instrument determines most of the intonation, but you have to make continuous fine adjustments.
Also, you have to adjust to other players. I have read that in the major symphonies, the wind players tell one another about notes that are sharp or flat on their particular instruments and agree with one another that they will "go sharp" or "go flat" with one another.
At that very detailed level, it's all player adjustment. However, as I said, the basic intonation, like the basic pitch, is built into the instrument.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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