 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2010-08-01 12:30
My teacher is not in town for a few days, and I have a really simple question.
I've been practicing from Klose's "68 Exercises of Mechanism" (pp. 16-17) for some time now, and I have, quite possibly, wrongfully assumed that I should be "slurring" these exercises.
I thought I should slur them because of the long, curved markings written above/below the exercises. I have since determined that these are not necessarily slur marks, but phrase marks, right?
So, does that mean that I should be "tonguing" these exercises, or was it meant that I should still be slurring them?
Maybe I should be doing it both ways...slurring once, then tonguing. What do you think?
I need to edit my post as follows:
I also play out of David Hite's "Melodious and Progressive Studies", Book I. In there are several "phrasing" marks that also have staccato dots above the notes, and that is REALLY throwing me off. I did not find this in Klose...only in the David Hite book; however there are many instances of this in the Hite book. So how are these phrases played???
I appreciate your advice on this, and pardon me for being so dumb.
CarlT
Post Edited (2010-08-01 13:54)
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Author: William
Date: 2010-08-01 15:16
Long, curved markings above or below notes usually mean to play without articulation--or simply slur. When those long, curved markings are also accompanied with dots above or below each individual note, that usually indicates "legato" tonguing--a very smooth and light "du" articulation for each note, almost slurred but yet, separated.
In any case, it never hurts to practice passages both slurred or tongued as both techniques must be learned.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-08-03 02:33
I agree with William. In wind music these are pretty much almost always slur marks. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2010-08-03 04:28
Slurs with dots or lines over the notes under them indicate very specific techniques in string playing. There's a lot more room for interpretation when they appear in wind parts. Some string-playing composers do not make this distinction.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2010-08-03 08:53
Yes, usually slur them. Also, you might want to put in a small dynamic swell in each phrase (depending on context). It is possible you might want to keep some articulation... if it's obviously a song-without-words, or the notes within the phrase are obviously grouped, or something like that.
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2010-08-03 13:58
Carl, excellent question. I was looking through some solo books for students a few days ago, and I came across something similar that made me stop and think. Here's a link:
http://www.borders.com/online/store/TitleDetail?sku=0769222021&schid=pfggle
Near the bottom of the page, select the "Look inside" tab.
Looking at the clarinet part beginning on the bottom of p. 3 (I don't have a link to the clarinet solo part, but it's exactly the same, just up a step), the articulations are confusing. Why are there two sets of slurs? For younger students who will be performing this, it isn't good editing.
I suspect that the longer slurs are to be thought of as phrase markings. This isn't a common way of doing things in wind writing, but it is seen in piano music. Sometimes there is needless confusion that is caused when a composer or editor isn't familiar with the nuances of wind playing.
Post Edited (2010-08-03 14:01)
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2010-08-04 09:57
clarinetguy -
Actually that looks perfectly obvious to me: the big ones are phrases, the small ones are explicit slurs. How else would both explicit phrasing and explicit slurs / tonguing be marked?
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2010-08-04 13:19
Bassie, thanks for responding. As I mentioned, I think you're right about the "longer ones" being phrases.
CarlT and I both pointed out that "big slurs" can sometimes lead to a lot of confusion. Those who play wind instruments are often left wondering if they are really slurs, or if they are meant to indicate phrases. As we all know, it is very common not to show phrases with specific symbols in wind music. Using "big slurs" is acceptable, but not the best way. To me, a "big slur" should mean an actual slur.
A performer is expected to know (or figure out) where phrases are. If a composer (or editor) of wind music does want to indicate phrasing, I think the best way to do it is with the breath mark (apostrophe or large comma).
In a way, this subject can be compared to the old practice of writing all eighth notes with flags in vocal music. It wouldn't be incorrect to do it this way in wind writing, but it really isn't the best way.
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2010-08-09 13:45
Articulation is often talked about in "black and white" terms. Recently I was looking at articulation in a dixieland play along recording. After making my own decisions i listened to what the performer did. It was a trumpet player and he lightly tongued most everything.. It was done in a very smooth fashion however. It worked very well. It didn't occur to me to use this approach.
Most recently I was looking at a "funk" figure written for sax in a pit orchestra. It was a combination of eighths and sixteenth notes. Again I tried to figure out what was appropriate. Then I realized I had the line with the trombone. Without thinking I asked him how he was articulating it and had him play the line. Well of course he wasn't slurring anything at that speed but all became clear when I heard him play it. When you consider some instruments like the piano don't slur anything it makes our articulation decisions more meaningful. You can play a study all tongued and produce smooth and long lines.
One should develop a very smooth approach to tonguing to the point that the listener is unaware of the articulation and add this to crisper and more noticeable types of attacks.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2010-08-09 15:19
>>One should develop a very smooth approach to tonguing to the point that the listener is unaware of the articulation and add this to crisper and more noticeable types of attacks.>>
And therein lies the problem! Oh, were it that easy.
For some I suppose smooth tonguing would come more naturally, but for me, it seems the harder I work, the less progress I make when it comes to "light" tonguing. I continue to hit the reed with a "thud" more often than not. I consider my tongue to be "average" rather than too long or too short, so I wouldn't have thought after 2-1/2 years that it would be so hard.
I won't give up though. I will continue to work on it. Just wish there was some shortcuts to smooth, light tonguing. If any of you have any suggestions for getting over this (for me anyway) large hurdle, please advise.
CarlT
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2010-08-10 15:35
Carl, If I might suggest a few things... I use the "air attack" as an exercise to determine how responsive the reed is. It is very easy to test a reed with a heavy tongue and determine it is responding OK. If you play with this type of reed it will encourage a heavy tongue. So what I do is test the reed with an air attack. Use a gradual increase in air speed until the sound is initiated. From this I determine whether the reed needs to be worked on for response. You can also fuss a bit here with reed placement and ligature placement. If I adjust I use the Ridenour ATG and try the air attack again. I hope this is of some use. I realize that the attack is only the beginning of a phrase and once the sound is started you don't require the same type of response as the initial attack. I guess my point is that you are setting up a chain of events and if the first tongued note is heavy and requires lots of biting then you are starting off on the wrong foot.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2010-08-10 17:47
>> hit the reed
Well there's an issue right there. As discussed in several threads hereabouts, tonguing is about /releasing/ the reed, not 'hitting' it.
Tonguing is often described as 'Ta'. But also 'Da' and even 'Na' are worth exploring. But I don't want to get too far off-topic
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