 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2009-03-14 21:58
Does anyone know about the Amati Kraslice Clarinets as to quality and workmanship ect. I am considering purchasing a couple of these instruments (a Bb and an A) They are full Boehms with the bottom Eb extension and look to be in very good condition. The model numbers are, for the Bb ACL 605 and for the A ACL 675 The asking price is very reasonable
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-03-14 23:17
They've been hit and miss in the past, but no harm in trying.
Particola do a full Boehm, though I suspect it carries a weighty price tag: http://www.patricola.com/?s=7&c=4&t=4
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2009-03-15 06:27
I used to have one. Very good IMO. I would say as far as general quality, I'd put it around the entry level to professional level (in "buffet" terms, it's between the R13 and E13).
The problem that MAY arise is finding repair shops to work on it. It's a good quality instrument from my findings (I'm not a tech, but as a player I like them), but some repair shops ONLY deal with the big four.
GBK, one of our board's administrators, has used an amati professionally in his gigs and no one has been the wiser that it WASN'T one of his 73 Buffet clarinets (Am I right on the total by now? Has the collection grown to MORE than 73 by now? hehehe)
If you do a search on Amati, you'll find some stuff. Especially interesting was the Mopani wood. Very cool wood, and from the five that I tried out, it was the second best playing. I just didn't want a full boehm at the time.
Alexi
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2009-03-15 06:39
Also, it might be worth knowing that Amati is the company that helps to manufacture the Forte clarinet which is sold by Doctor's Products. The Forte is regarded as a very good clarinet by those on this board that have tried it and done their writeups. So if Forte manufactured by Amati, and Forte = good, then amati manufacturing is . . . hehehe, well you get where I'm going.
Although the transitive property doesn't ALWAYS apply, it's a good sign that maybe they are worth the try at least.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-03-15 07:15
>> The problem that MAY arise is finding repair shops to work on it. <<
Good that you emphesized "MAY". I read about this very strange thing on some forums (especially this one) but how common is this in reality? I think any reasonable person will work on any instrument, while being concious and honest and let the owner know if their instrument is not worth working on in terms or cost of repair in comparison with the result (e.g. SOME far East instruments with extremely poor quality). Amati is definitely NOT in that category! They are ok and should be no problem for good repairers to work on them.
That said.... I've tried several student model Amatis, a Frote C clarinet (made by Amati), and an Amati bass clarinet (supposed to be a professional model?). Most of those I checked thoroughly. I'd have to say I disagree with most of Alexi's posts.
The quality in many ways is definitely not as good as implied from Alexi's posts. I definitely wouldn't put it between E13-R13 and in many ways considerably worse. Starting from design of the keys/linakges, especially in combination with the key metal, and also the general design of the instrument and choice of materials. I'm not saying they are especially bad, in comparison some of the most expensive and respected instruments also sometimes have problems.
Re Forte clarinet: I have read all the posts I could find on this forum about Frote C clarinet before trying it myself. Sorry to be upfront.... but after trying it myself I re-read all reviews on the forum again and realized I couldn't really find any that I consider very thorough and detailed.
For reviews on Amati student clarinets you can see this page http://www.nitailevi.com/reviews/clarinets/amati/amati_acl211.htm
For Amati bass clarinet review you can see http://www.nitailevi.com/reviews/clarinets/amati/amati_bass_acl691.htm
These reviews are in Hebrew but you can use Google Lanauge Tools to translate to any language http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en
If you want review about Forte C clarinet you can email me.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2009-03-15 07:29
Quote:
I'd have to say I disagree with most of Alexi's posts.
The quality in many ways is definitely not as good as implied from Alexi's posts. I definitely wouldn't put it between E13-R13 and in many ways considerably worse. Starting from design of the keys/linakges, especially in combination with the key metal, and also the general design of the instrument and choice of materials. I'm not saying they are especially bad, in comparison some of the most expensive and respected instruments also sometimes have problems. lol. Well, I meant putting it between the E13 and R13 in comparison to playing abilities. I'm no tech and don't really notice the quality of keys and linkages and stuff. And I don't have it anymore so I can't comment on it. I know that in Doc Henderson's post in the past, he did say there were some screws and stuff that were jagged and not well finished.
Also, as to those shops, I was really surprised when a local shop flat out REFUSED to work on my Lyrique (by Tom Ridenour). They said he had stopped by and tried to sell them those "pieces of garbage" and they wouldn't work on it. When I explained that all I needed was for a pad to be reseated, instead of refusing or just heating and reseating the pad, they took the key and pried on it SEVERELY away from the clarinet body in an attempt to FORCE the pad to seat. I looked on in horror as the key was pulled FAR out of alignment. They handed it back and said, "There ya go. Free."
Nevertheless, I won't ever go there again. And sadly, they seem to be "the place to go" in the area and service all the schools and my military band's instruments as well.
Alexi
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2009-03-15 09:08
Thankyou all for giving me quite a bit of interesting reading to do. It does sound as if the Amati Kraslice Clarinet is a reasonable good buy for the price. Yes Chris P I did look up that Italian site and they do seem to have some classy instruments. Completley out of my league though.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-03-15 14:47
>> When I explained that all I needed was for a pad to be reseated,
>> instead of refusing or just heating and reseating the pad, they
>> took the key and pried on it SEVERELY away from the clarinet body
>> in an attempt to FORCE the pad to seat.
Maybe language but I don't really understand what you mean. Not sure what you mean by "pried on it" and "FORCE the pad to seat". It sounds like they used something (finger(nail)/spring/???) to pull the pad from the edge...? Very strange if this is what they did. I don't see how the pad would stay reliably this way (i.e. it won't).
However if I misunderstood and you mean they aligned the pad by bending the KEY then that is fine.
As far as heating and reseating the pad, that is actually impossible in most new clarinets (probably almost all actually) because manufacturers don't use enough glue behind the pads to allow this.
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Author: graham
Date: 2009-03-16 08:29
Don't know about the mainstream clarinets but the bass is a slightly mixed bag. How it would stand up to professional use I don't know. It rattles, and some of the pivot screws are simply not the right gauge for the rods. And sometimes the screws gradually screw out and you have to screw them back in. The alternative Aflat/Eflat key seems too far away and clinks onto the other lever keys.
But
In five years with only two visits to a tech, one for a broken spring and the other to fit the silencers on the lever keys (both early in its career) it has never gone out of adjustment. You do not need to apply lots of pressure to keys for them to close, and you can play E/B for instance on one key with no fear of having to press the C/F to reinforce it. The sound is universally praised, but it has that disconcerting thing of sounding better to the listener than to the player.
But that is just the bass. You'd have to say it is a good instrument despite its weaknesses. I know this from having lived with it for 5 years.
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Author: kdolan01
Date: 2009-03-16 19:52
ive got an amati Eb that has served me well, no harm in trying id say
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Author: GBK
Date: 2009-03-16 20:19
In my family of Buffets, I actually have an Amati full Boehm A clarinet, model ACL 675.
It is a very adequate, low priced clarinet, with above average construction, nicely grained wood, and hearty silver plating.
It has served me well as my "outdoor A clarinet" when weather conditions rule out taking my Buffets.
I originally purchased it on a whim at a very low price, because of a few unusual circumstances and have not regretted it.
The few negatives are that it takes a smaller than normal barrel (62 mm?) and as a result the throat tones and some of the left hand notes are on the high side. A longer barrel (64mm?) will bring the throat tones down, but care must be taken to make sure that the rest of the clarinet is still reasonably well tuned.
The overall sound of the clarinet is smaller and more compact than, for example, a Buffet, but pleasingly focused.
One thing to watch: like many of today's manufacturer's, the glue used for the corks, bumpers and tenons is not adequate, and may fail at any time...GBK
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2009-03-16 22:31
OK everyone, after reading all of the opinions that my message triggered off I have 'bit the bullet' and purchased the Bb and A Amatis that I was on about and now to really find out just what exactly I now have. The seller has given me a one week cooling off period and she lives nearby anyway. They both seem in very good condition for second-hand instruments but I have already noticed that the Bb has a very shodderly made screw holder for the articulated G#/Ab mechanisim. I have already tried this out and it actually works very well. The wood on both instruments looks to be of good quality and there are no visible cracks though the A's wood is more grainy than that of the Bb. One of the first things that I'm going to do is lightly oil the mechanisim on both of them as it looks like this has never been done before. Anyway I'll let you all know in the next few days how they actually play as to intonation ect. Oh, and by the way, they are heavy!
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2009-03-18 17:13
OK. I have now done a fairly basic testing of the general intonation of both my 'new' second hand Amati Kraslice Clarinets and these are the results. First of all, the low Eb/D# extension note is somewhat sharp and there is nothing that can be done about that. However, I soon figurered out that I now have a very good full toned and well in tune middle stave Bb (the left hand G#/Ab side key has to be opened as well) This is going to be fun to use when ever it is practical to use it. As is expected, the bottom stave line Eb/D# long fingering is sharp but as the instruments are full Boehms there is a left hand fork fingering now available. As far as I can tell, and by using a electronic tuner, and my ear (which I don't completely trust) the rest of the range (compass) is very well in tune and also free blowing. These Clarinets seem to work best with a moderately soft reed. I also use the double embouchure mainly to protect my false teeth but this embouchure also seems to me to give more flexible control of the reed ect. All in all, I am very pleased with these instruments and all at a reasonable price. I would rate them as 'middle of the road' quality. Now I have to decide if I will keep my old Boosy & Hawkes Clarinets of sell them off and go over completely to the full Boehm technique.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-03-18 17:36
Stick with full Boehms as they have all manner of gadgets that can get you out of scrapes, and keep an eye out for older Selmers!
For altissimo Bb, play it as upper register C (xxx|xxxF/C) but lift your thumb off the thumb hole still keeping the speaker key open. The standard fingering requires the C#/G# key to be opened while playing the C fingering (xxxC#/G#|xxxF/C) but having the articulated C#/G# key means the pad cup will remain closed with the RH rings.
And the extra C#/G# touch (the extra 'sliver' key between RH fingers 1 and 2, operated by RH2) is very useful for the altissimo E-F trill instead of trilling the C#/G# key with the LH pinkie alone which can fatigue easily.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2009-03-18 18:39
Yup. I hope to get a set of full boehm instruments in the coming years.
Alexi
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2009-03-18 22:55
To Christ P Thanks for giving me those special fingerings. I knew about the Rh trill key for the E/F trill but as for the Altissimo Bb I was using a variation of the one that you have given. That is, just the Speaker Key with the thumb hole uncovered but using only the 2nd LH finger. It also gives a Bb but is flatter than yours. By the way, I am also an Oboe player and have a Howarth S55c full combination conservatoire Thumb Plate. The serial # is H265 and I purchased it off a former Howarth employee, a Mr John Armstrong who has now returned to Australia and is now actually making Oboes! He is my local instrument repairer and specialises in Flutes/Oboes/and Clarinets. I have already spoken to him about servicing the Armati Clarinets and he has said that he will be glad to work on them. He knows these two instruments having serviced them before from their previous owner, Boita Vaughn who only lives a couple of hours drive from me. Anyway, thanks again for the usful information. Barry
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2009-03-18 23:17
To GBK. Thanks for responding to my ongoing discussion. It is interesting that you have the same model A instrument as me. One of the first things that I noticed when I obtained both Clarinets was that they came with two tuning barrels each. You may be interested to know that the Bb barrels are 60mm and 62mm and the A has a 62mm and 64mm. So that will be handy. I also noticed that they still have the original Amati mouthpieces which appear to have not been used much. When I spoke to Boita Vaughn, the person who sold me the instruments she said that she uses Rico Royal mouthpieces. The reason that she was selling the Amatis was because she wants to upgrade to Yamaha although she was also thinking about the Lyrique Clarinets from the USA. Anyway thanks again for responding. Do you have any suggestions as to what you would consider a good mouthpiece type for this make of Clarinet?
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Author: baursak
Date: 2009-03-19 16:53
Amati, ups! I have had two Amati clarinets. The first had nikel plated keys and plastic bell. I played it during my college education in the late 1980. Before this one I' played Leningrad plastic clarinet (Oh, my God!) so I thought my new Amati is the best clarinet in the world. The second Amati was bought in Prague in 1998. This one has silver plated keys and not so bad wood and sound. Unfortunately both of them had bad intonation. Although Amati mouthpiece with number 6 on it is not so bad. I think Jupiter is much better clarinet (I'v played Parisienne model) for the same price.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-03-20 00:00
Hi Barry,
Good to know that both you and John Armstrong know the history of these clarinets.
I checked my book and your S55c isn't one I finished, but I did finish one around the same time which is only a few of numbers off yours.
I get John Armstrong mixed up with the oboist John Anderson. I only know of John Armstrong by name, having never actually met him in person.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: RoBass
Date: 2010-03-08 13:35
Who wants to see a "Leningrad"-Model (but it's from Kiev in Ucraine instead;-) please take a look here: http://www.museum-markneukirchen.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1362
no comment necessary... ;-)
kindly
Roman
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-03-08 14:03
Vollgeil. I like the toddler room wallpaper lining of the first instrument case...must've been a case of "no velvet this month, but comrades, I've got this" :-)
I've stumbled across this crude "lyre" or Б logo some times, on clarinets, flutes and trumpets. Right now I can't remember if we successfully identified the maker. <scratches head>
--
Ben
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Author: RoBass
Date: 2010-03-08 14:10
This maker Savod "Orfei" in Kiev was the central Russian (no, was more a Soviet;-) instrument manufacturer. Some Saxes of this factory and some flutes were known in Germany. And some of the trumpets are well done.
But my "clarinet" was the evil's pipe ;-) It's not playable anymore - but fancy ;-)
We checked for the age and found some hints to the later 80s. The quaslity is as poorest as possible and more than sad. It stinks, it is venting allover and the tone produced seems to be a murdered cat ;-)
kindly
Roman
PS: These manufacturer did some well instruments from ebonite in the 70s. Many military orchestras played them for many years.
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