 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: ian.walker5504
Date: 2009-12-22 03:50
I am vaguely contemplating upgrading from my Yamaha 650. What benefits should I expect from upgrading to either the sev or csg. Also, does the csg have the same beautiful ubstained grenadilla as the 650?
Thanks,
Ian
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-12-22 18:52
CSGs and SEVs are beautifully crafted instruments. I play on both quite regularly and find only a slight warming of sound going to the CSG. I am not familiar with the 650 but will say that I was IMMEDIATELY sold on the CSG and sold my R13 on the spot. For me the greatest advantage of both the horns I play is the wonderfully even internal intonation. No need to shop hundreds of barrels just to get it to play right as was needed for my Buffet. The other great playing characteristic is that they play just as full at very soft volumes (I've had issues with having to voice differently for soft playing on Leblancs and Selmers).
You MUST try one!
..................Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Niethamer
Date: 2009-12-22 20:02
I just bought a CSG back in October. It has unstained wood. Beautiful clarinet. I tried the Hamilton Plating (gold) keys because I couldn't believe that the plating would make a difference in the sound of the horn. I STILL don't believe it, but every Hamilton Plate clarinet I tried played better than the best of the silver plated clarinets. (I had 6 of each) So SOMETHING must be different, even if Yamaha isn't telling what that is. Even with the Hamilton Plated keys, the clarinet cost less than an R13 with Nickel plated keys.
Did I mention? I'm very pleased with this clarinet.
(Full disclosure - I'm a Yamaha Performing Artist)
David
niethamer@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/dbnclar1/index.html
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Barnhart ★2017
Date: 2009-12-22 21:33
I'd played Buffet R13s for 35 years before I bought a pair of CSG-Hamilton A/Bb clarinets over a year ago based on research, discussions with Paul (above) and an opportunity to play a used 650. This instrument was not in perfect shape, yet had excellent intonation, response, and tone. It played as well as any R13 I had played.
My thought was: if the 650 is that good, the CSG must be worth a try.
After a year of professional gigs, I would not trade my CSGs for any clarinet I have ever played. They have superb intonation, great response over the entire range of the instrument, a wonderful sound (very even over all registers), and they're gorgeous to look at.
For me, their best quality is that they don't get in the way of doing what I want to do, or sounding like I want to sound. They are relatively free-blowing (with only modest resistance) and every note is clear and resonant--there are no stuffy notes on either horn with any mouthpiece/reed combination.
I've not played any silver-plated CSGs, but I'm glad I went with the Hamilton-plated models. One of the Yamaha sites described a double-blind test in which both judges and players were blindfolded while playing a random variety of silver/Hamilton-plated CSGs. The predominant majority of judges and players felt the Hamilton-plated instruments played/sounded better. I'm not sure why this would be the case, but their testing method seems objective.
I think the CSGs are great instruments at a great price. I highly recommend that you try them.
If price is an issue, I would expect that you would get (better-than) R13 performance in a 650 for a lot less money.
Bob Barnhart
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: weberfan
Date: 2009-12-22 23:55
I realize that we may be highjacking the OP's question on the Model 650, but I wonder if Paul, Bob (or anyone else) could explain the difference between the CSG and the SEV models. Yamaha's promotional literature is far from clear. Thanks!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-12-23 00:11
One difference is barrel length. The more traditional models of Yamaha clarinets have standard length tuning barrels. The CSG models have shorter tuning barrels to go wwith longer upper joints. I'm not sure why, but this is supposed to work better with tuning and tone quality. I think the CSG has a different bore design, too, but I might be mistaken.
Jeff
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Barnhart ★2017
Date: 2009-12-23 02:20
WRT "...different bore design"
The CSG is a hybrid German-French bore. I think an earlier thread on this bboard discussed this, indicating that the bore is ~14.33mm = .564" which is a small-bore diameter more like the Selmer Recital than most of the other contemporary designs. It is not a "Reform-Boehm" design however. Yamaha makes an R/B instrument and I was VERY disappointed in it (particularly the intonation) when I tried it several years ago, however this may have been due to using a French mouthpiece when a more German design might have worked better.
In any case, one notices different acoustic properties on the CSG than on typically "French" designs. In particular, it seems that more of the "alternate" fingerings (particularly in the altissimo register) are better in tune, more stable and sound better (at least for me). For example, high C# (using the side trill keys), high D (played "open") or trilling high C-D (using the side trill key) all produce better results on my CSGs than they do on my Buffets.
While subtly different from traditional French instruments , I would say I prefer and feel safer with the acoustic characteristics of the CSG.
Bob
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ISM
Date: 2009-12-23 04:23
Bob,
Where in Southern California would you suggest going to try a selection of professional level Yamaha clarinets?
Post Edited (2009-12-23 04:42)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ian.walker5504
Date: 2009-12-23 06:46
Bob,
Also, where in Northern California can I try out the Yamaha custom clarinets. I've found one place, Best Music in Oakland that carries the ycl-650 (which I already own and like) but nothing higher by Yamaha. They carry plenty of Buffets but I am already convinced by my positive experience experience with the 650, reading positive comments on the CSG and my negative experiences trying out Buffet R13's (I hope I don't get a "contract" put out on me for that Buffet slur!) that when I do upgrade, which probably won't be for a year or longer it will be to a CSG or possibly an SEV.
However, I would like to try out an SEV, CSG, and CSV in the meantime. I'm a fan of Yamaha quality control which virtually assures that I can take a new Yamaha clarinet out of the box which will have good intonation just as I did when I took delivery of my YAS 62II alto sax. This is not the case with R13's which cost more than double the price of my 650. I "kind of liked" the covered tone of the R13 but I would not be willing to tolerate quality inconsistencies.
It's strange (or maybe not) that now I am gravitating to playing and studying clarinet with a good classical teacher that I'm becoming pickier about all the features of the instrument, mouthpiece, barrel, reeds, etc.
Thanks for all your feedback,
Ian
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Barnhart ★2017
Date: 2009-12-23 15:47
Ian,
Unfortunately, I don't know where you can try out the Yamaha models. Here in San Diego, I had to ask a store that sells (but not stocks) Yamahas to order a pair of their Reform-Boehm instruments on trial. This cost me $40, so when it came time to try the CSGs, I just ordered them from the internet. I only had ~14 days, but it was quickly clear to me that I wanted to keep them.
Although the Internet is a wonderful thing, I lament the days when stores actually stocked the products they sell, so one could examine them or try them out.
Perhaps if you contact Yamaha's customer support number posted on their web-site they might suggest a store or make arrangements for you to try their CSG/SEV instruments.
Good luck!
Bob
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-12-23 19:45
Well guys, try what I did........... there are Yamaha dealers virtually EVERYWHERE and they will bring in (if you ply them hard enough) a single horn (or pair perhaps) to try on a no obligation basis.
I bought my CSG on the spot, trading in my R13 on the spot, with only the one trial clarinet in my hot little hands.......it was that good.
................Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: DAVE
Date: 2009-12-23 22:35
IMO the 650 plays a little like an R13 with better intonation and more evenness. The SEV plays like a Buffet Prestige which for me means a smoother, more refined sound. The SEV blends beautifully with a section of Buffets. I tried and liked the CSG, preferring it in many ways to the SEV. I ended up with the SEV because the sections that I was performing with at the time were all Buffets. I could not blend at all with the Buffets on the CSG; however, the other instruments like flutes and oboes were easy as could be. I don't have a great explanation other than perhaps the intonation on the CSG is just too spot on... for the Buffets to hang. I say this in all seriousness. The CSG is that good.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-12-24 12:34
I have no problem hanging with a CSG in a section of Buffets. Once you have "spot on," it's easy to adjust either way. The problem for me BEFORE the CSGs was finding "spot on." I'll never compain about that again!
Of course, since we are talking about intonation, if there are those amongst you who don't like Yamaha (for some god forsaken reason), you might want to try the new Selmer Privilege.......another incredibly IN TUNE horn.
..............Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TPeterson
Date: 2009-12-24 15:44
I don't have any experience with newer Yamaha's, but I can confidently say that I have never played an R13 that I liked better than YCL-72's. I use a Moennig barrel for improved tone color, but the instruments themselves have a wonderful open feeling and very even scales. Good luck!
Tim Peterson
Band Director & Clarinetist
Ionia, MI
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
