 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Lam
Date: 2009-09-26 16:03
Hallo,
Did anyone played Tchaikovsky' "Pathetique" symphony on a German system clarinet (Oehler mechanic) before ?
I am not able to play the passage of Bar 189-191, which is a repeated semiquaver pattern of four notes : C#-G#-F#-C# in the second register.
On a Boehm system, this pattern will be easy to play, but on a German system, the fingering of C# is only available for left hand little finger, and has to change immediately to left hand little finger G#. so I am looking for some advice which could deal with this problem. Thanks a lot !
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2009-09-26 16:24
I did once play it on an Ottensteiner; but that has a RH thumb version of the C#. Your best bet is to use xxo/xxo for the G#, I suppose.
There's a lot going on at that point.
Tony
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2009-09-27 12:33
Is it possible to slide the LH little finger from the C-sharp to G-sharp?
Some German system instruments allow a C-sharp to be played by pressing the LH E/B key, without the use of the RH C key. If this is possible on your instrument then it may make for an easier slide.
But probably the best is Tony's suggestion (as usual :-) )
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-09-27 14:32
I thought Oehler clarinets had a little extra touchpiece on the G# key to allow it to be played with the RH 1st finger. Is that not usable here? Should I stop wishing I had one of those keys on my Buffets? 
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Author: Lam
Date: 2009-09-27 15:46
Thanks Tony for the very useful fingering suggestion !
To Liquorice : yes, I usually use the LH E/B key to play the C# in many other places, but I could not slide the finger from the E/B key to G# key very quickly. So this problem occur too when I play the Stravisky's 1st of his 3 pieces. perhaps it is one of the disadvantage of oehler system.
To mrn : yes, there is an extra touchpiece on the G# key and it is usable here, and I am now trying to practice using this touchpiece and also the suggestion by Tony. I will see which one works better.
by the way, this afternoon I went to a Concert with Charles Neidich playing the Mozart Concerto and he gave short introduction of clarinet to the audience. He was showing us a lot of clarinets including the boxwood Ottensteiner and a Boxwood Bohem clarinet. They are surely made by Mr.Jochen Seggelke. But I notice one interesting thing is that, although his boxwood Seggelke clarinet is in Boehm system, he has the German fingering keys for the LH little finger (B-C# keys with roller link together and with the Eb and F lever). but of course, all other keywork are the same as Buffet, but its interesting !
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2009-09-27 19:14
I'm sure that almost any maker of German-system clarinets would add a roller at the top of the (left) E/B key that will facilitate the slide to the C#/G# key, but I've never seen one, and German system players obviously play the Tchaikovsky 6th passage without it. It's something you learn to do, just as Boehm system players without the left-hand Ab/Eb lever learn to slide the right little finger down for "you can't get there from here" passages in sharp keys. Remember that on most German instruments, the C#/G# key is quite large and placed close to the E/B key.
There's nothing illegal or immoral (or for that matter fattening) about sliding, and German system players to it constantly going from clarion C to Eb. Bassoonists slide all the time -- with their thumbs, yet -- and string players live by sliding.
Also, I can't see how the tab for the right index finger on the C#/G# key would help. You'd need to slide up on it between C# and G#, and then slide back down to get your finger back on the hole going from G# to F#.
Ken Shaw
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-09-27 19:24
Ken Shaw wrote:
> Also, I can't see how the tab for the right index finger on the
> C#/G# key would help. You'd need to slide up on it between C#
> and G#, and then slide back down to get your finger back on the
> hole going from G# to F#.
I was thinking perhaps you could play it with your knuckle, just like you do with the A key in your left hand.
If the Oehler system works enough like Boehm system, I'm thinking you might even be able to figure out a way to hold down one of the LH pinky keys through the whole figure so you have all the motion in one hand. I have no idea if this will work, but it seems like it's worth trying.
We played this piece last season, and while these particular bars gave me no problems on Boehm system, some of the other ones were a real pain until I started fiddling around with different fingerings to reduce the number of different finger movements. Some judiciously-placed side-key C#'s and 1+1 Bb's made a huge difference!
The problem with this section of Tchaikovsky #6 is that it goes by blindingly fast--I can see why the OP finds sliding to be a problem in this spot.
Post Edited (2009-09-27 20:01)
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Author: Fraeulein Klarinette
Date: 2009-09-28 15:43
from what I learned in Berlin: slide from E/B key to G#. Make sure the 3 keys are perfectly flat, otherwise, you can't slide...... of course, you need a very good technician to adjust that for you
the xxo xxo fingering produces a dull and somewhat out-of-tune sound.. but I guess it's a solution
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2009-09-28 16:19
Kevin wrote:
>> the xxo xxo fingering produces a dull and somewhat out-of-tune sound.. but I guess it's a solution. >>
THE FINGERING produces that?
It depends on who's playing it, and how they play it, I'd say.
Tony
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2009-09-30 18:00
Well, I finally got out my Albert system clarinet to try it.
The sound of the fingering xxo/xxo can be made perfectly OK (it's the standard 5-key clarinet fingering, after all); keeping the C# key down improves it further.
However, the cross-fingering execution itself is awkward at speed, as is the slide.
What finally emerged is that you can use the LH B-key fingering to get the C# (Lam said that was available) by holding down the OTHER end of the B (the cup and pad) with your knee throughout. The passage then becomes trivial -- indeed, more natural than on the Boehm, because F# is just xxx/xoo.
You do have to practise hitting the right place with your knee to begin with, but that's not too hard:-)
I don't know whether the trick works on Lam's Oehler clarinet, but it's worth a try.
Tony
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2009-09-30 18:16
Another place in Tchaikowsky where xxo/xxo is useful (if you don't have a LH Eb/D#, that is) occurs in the first Piano concerto (the fast 6/8 section).
It's where you have to play C#|B__A/G#C#D#|E at speed.
Play with strong support; your diaphragm learns to relax (outside your awareness), and ups the airpressure at the crucial G#.
Control of vocal tract resonance helps too -- as on period instruments, where such techniques are routinely employed.
Tony
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