 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: fuzzystradjazz
Date: 2009-03-14 22:33
I've played clarinet for a short 27 years, so I know that many here have more experience than I do, but after reading many "reed" posts here in the forum, I'm intersted in further opinions.
Back when I first started playing with any proficiency at all, we weren't told about "breaking" reeds in (nor were we told how stressful clarinet playing was, and that we needed neckstraps!) So, for about the next 15 years of playing, I was blissful in my ignorance and happily played the clarinet.
Well, I went back to college a few years ago to pick up some courses, and I decided to see what the music department could offer. Wow! was I surprised to find out how critical these two items were!! I conformed to the new model of thinking, and jumped in with one foot (I will never use a neckstrap) but I did try the "breaking" in of reeds, as well as keeping the reeds humidified and such. I live more than 7000 feet above see level, and the humidity is usually between 5-15%, so the humidty thing made sense to me. At first, I bought the idea hook line and sinker. As time went on, I began questioning some things.
However, as I played in the various groups at the university, what I learned was: the students were all blaming reeds and sore shoulders/elbows for playing inadequacies. While reeds have always received just and unjust blame - it was alarming at the high rate of such blame now compared to when I went through school.
When I finished my courses, and entered the real world again - I slowly reverted to my old ways of carefree reed maintenance (perhaps I should call this NON-maintenance). I can honestly say that I am much happier with the quality of my reeds now, I can find more working reeds from a box, and the reeds tend to last MULTIPLE times longer.
So, this personal experience, combined with the knowledge that history didn't lavish these modern technologies to our clarinetist ancestors, and they made great music without dampits, humidity control, temperature control, etc. - all combine to make me wonder if this is all just yet another fad, and another way that we clarinetists can blame the process/equipment rather than our own human frailities.
Thus, to my question: Is there exacting scientific verification about the effects of a "break-in" period and the reed's reaction to it? Is data available to show the structural proof in the reed fibers to backup the claimed benefits? Is it possible that this benefit exists only in the collective and individual mind? Please understand that I ask this, not trying to accuse anyone or make anyone defensive - to the contrary, I am very curious about the answers; I have lived through many musical fads, and am curious whether this might be yet another one.
Having said all of that (for a little humor and to take the onus off us clarinetists), from my observations in life:
Nothing in this world has been more unjustly critisized than a bad oboe player's good reed.
Thanks for any input!!
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-03-14 22:52
I don't break in my reeds either. If one's gone, I grab one off the box and be done with it. My reed holder usually has two reeds in it, a harder one and a softer one.
But I am a mere hobbyist.
--
Ben
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Author: Pappy
Date: 2009-03-14 22:53
There are probably countless reed fads now and I think you're largely right but I was in music school 30-35 years ago and we were very much taught breaking in and adjusting reeds. In fact we were required to learn to make our own. Is that still taught? There are more gadgets, but fiddling with reeds is as old as cane as far as I can tell.
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Author: jsc
Date: 2009-03-15 01:54
I was taught by a couple of teachers that they should be fine right out of the box. Soak in the mouth, place it, and play it. I've been pretty much doing that ever since.
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Author: Arlee
Date: 2009-03-15 04:17
Hi, FuzzyJazz --
Back in fourth grade, 1943, I was instructed to take one reed from the box, or card of four reeds, wet it and play it. When it 'wore out' I would take the next reed out of the box, wet it and play it... etc.
For me, "Keeping it Simple" has worked quite well ever since that first simple beginner's note.
I learned how to "make" a reed (self taught) that plays well and have done so a few times out of curiosity rather than necessity. In a pinch, if I had to, I'm confident in my ability to do so today. In the meantime I simply enjoy playing... one reed at a time 
- Arlee -
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Author: fuzzystradjazz
Date: 2009-03-15 07:18
Is it still taught? Well...to give the only experience I've had with the subject - I've had two leading professors promise that they would show me how to make reeds from scratch, and neither ever did - nor did they make the reeds they played on - so I'm curious to the answer of this too!! (grin)
I think it is just the do-it-yourself method for me if I ever have the need to go down that road (the older I get, the more this seeming necessity seems to be fading from my desire though!!)
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Author: Wes
Date: 2009-03-15 07:36
Hi!
Just take a very close look at a new reed and you will see that it is likely rough and/or showing raised grain fibers. If you remove those raised surface fibers each time you wet it, it is probable that you may have prepared it for duty. This may need to be repeated several times as each time you wet it, new fibers come to the surface of the reed.
It ain't rocket science, just that a vibrating member is less flexible when small stiffening fibers are on top of the surface. Any surface roughness also dampens the reed vibrations and is also best removed! Good Luck!!
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2009-03-15 08:32
I dont break 'em in either. The only thing I do is balance it (ala-ATG style). And they work fine.
Alexi
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2009-03-15 13:08
Some of the more elaborate break-in procedures I've read have seemed a little witch-crafty to me, but the players that follow them seem to feel there's a significant benefit in length and quality of reed life. I've only rarely sanded the back of a reed (when it was too warped to be playable) and most of the time ended up discarding those reeds anyway, probably because I was starting with commercial reeds that didn't have enough heart wood to tolerate the loss. I don't humidify my reeds between uses because I've never found any benefit except that I don't have to wet them as long before I play on them.
It isn't hard to see that a brand new reed soaks up saliva very quickly and gets waterlogged after relatively short playing time. Gradually, it becomes less likely to waterlog - I know why *I think* this happens, but I've never read anything other than other people's conjectures - and can eventually be played almost indefinitely long at a practice session, rehearsal or performance (at which point, it is "broken-in"). As a result, I've always played on new reeds at first for very short times (less than five minutes), gradually increasing over a week or so the time I spend with each new one in my box, while relying on my seasoned reeds for regular use. As this process continues, the reeds often need to be re-balanced, which I do as needed. The end result, for me, are reeds that can last as long as a couple of months.
Karl
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2009-03-15 14:01
I grew up the way you did, fuzzystradjazz, but postings on Klarinet infected me with modified limited reed obsession to the point where I accumulated a drawerful of various brands of reeds, most of them much of a muchness despite the hype. At the 2004 ClarinetFest, I even bought a professional gizmo for modifying reeds. Over the next few years, I concluded that the gizmo, which is really nothing but a glorified sandpaper block, is grossly overpriced. Slowly I reverted to my old ways. I put a new reed in my mouth, get it wet, swipe it a few times on a piece of plain white typing paper and put the reed on the mouthpiece. Sometimes I'll use reed rush or sandpaper, but not often. I'm only an amateur and it's possible a pro would gag over the state of my reeds, but fussing over them really didn't seem to improve them enough to be worthwhile.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2009-03-15 14:14
If reeds work for you out of the box, why would you bother with any of these processes?
If you find that reeds frustrate you, that the "good ones" are in the minority, that you really only enjoy playing with the elusive good reed, that they don't last long, that expression is difficult, that your sound depends on the reed, that whether or not you practice is based on whether you have a good reed, ETC...
...then you need to subscribe to whichever of these methods as allows you freedom from reed worry.
I cure my reeds, adjust my reeds, and humidify my reeds. I do not have any reed problems, and reeds never stop me.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-03-15 14:16
It is my belief that the standard has become much higher over the years. The top pros are always looking for perfection. Sure I can pick a reed out of a box and play it in most cases but I'm not particularly satisfied with the way I sound or the way it feels so I do whatever I can to make it better. I can't just settle for mediocrity. When I was a student back in the late 50s early 60s we were using orange peels in our cases to add humidity and many players were already using different methods to keep their reeds humidity controlled. Some of my teachers talked about "breaking" in reeds and making adjustments. Books were being written on how to "prepare" reed cane etc. so this is nothing new. My level of playing is extremely high so my choice of reeds are equally as high. We each have our own standards, mine, as with many others is very high.
When I was a student Vandoren reeds came in boxes of 25, unlike today. It is my recollection that I didn't find any more really good reeds in a box then I do today in boxes of ten but I must admit I no longer use Vandorens, for just that reason.
ESP www.peabody.jhu.edu/457
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
Post Edited (2009-03-15 16:24)
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2009-03-15 15:22
My real job is a cell biologist so I have a lot of microscopes available to me. I was curious as to whether one of the reasons for reed decline after they are broken is was whether there was bits of ME left on the reed. Using some lipid stains these little bits of lip cells show up quite well on the reed. Quite a thick coating at the places your lips touch the reed and lesser so towards the tip, but still quite a bit.
So what I've been doing is to take my sharpest oboe reed knife and, with very little pressure and run it over the reed, trying to take little off the reed while removing the traces of skin cells and I've have saved my scrapings to examine under the microscope too. Almost all of it is skin pieces not reed. These reeds with the gentle scrape respond SO much better, it's as though the reed was playing new or better. I've kept a bass reed alive for quite a while now with just this simple technique. If you don't do this the sound is DEAD but doing it you get this PING to your sound. I like the ping!
On oboe I use a sonicator on occasion to clean reeds and I'm betting it does the same thing. I do give them the light scrape there too prior to playing. it makes a world of difference.
I was thinking that maybe I should wipe my lips as free of dead cells as possible but since there is quite a bit of dead cells thee, I'd be doing more damage than not!
Eefer guy
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-03-15 16:27
I've had reeds, both on bass and on clarinet, last me for a few hours and some for dozens of hours, some for days some for months. It depends on the cane and how I prepare and care for them. ESP
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-03-15 17:09
Ebclarinet1 wrote:
> These reeds with the gentle scrape respond SO much better, it's
> as though the reed was playing new or better.
I do that occasionally, myself--mainly because I get a little obsessional about my reeds starting to change color. Scraping the reed with my fingernail has become a bit of a nervous habit. Didn't realize it was mostly skin cells (just didn't think about it that much), but that makes a lot of sense. It does seem to improve the reed response.
I wonder if you achieve similar results (without causing all kinds of new problems) by soaking reeds in a denture cleaner. That stuff often contains enzymes that would break down the lip-cell proteins. I'm presuming that wouldn't necessarily damage the reed, because it's the cellulose in the reed that gives it its resilience. Anybody know (or tried it)?
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Author: fuzzystradjazz
Date: 2009-03-15 19:39
Ebclarinet1,
Thanks for your response about the skin layer - I've never tested it as you have, but you verified a suspicion I've had for a long time - I use loosely folded, stiff paper to scrape my damp (from playing) reeds free of this layer of dead skin from time to time (that's after I broke my terrible habbit of using my mouthpiece's table to do the job) - I know, I know....
I want to avoid taking this discussion into which reeds are best, etc., etc., if possible, but in reply to your question - believe it or not, I've found the Vandoren 56 Reu Lepic #4 to work well for me. (In case anyone was wondering who the ONE customer is who buys them - its me)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2009-03-15 19:44
It's simple - just rinse off your reed after playing. That gets most of the dead lip skin cells off of it which impeade the reeds vibration ability.
I equate having lip skin cells on the reed to hiking with rocks in your backpack.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-03-15 22:09
For Eefer guy. I use Rico grand concert thick blank and the Reserve #4 on clarinet but I've also began experimenting making my own this year so I use what ever comes out best. On bass I use mostly Rico grand concerts #3/12 but have some Vandores left over from before I began using the Rico's so I do open a box of those once in a while but mostly the Rico.
By the way, I remember experimenting with keeping my reeds humidity controlled when I was is school back when. I tried using a small sponge, a piece of chamois etc. so this in really not new. I even remember someone talking about keeping reeds in a special reed case that had water on the bottom and the reeds sat in a shelf above them so this has been going on for some time. ESP
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2009-03-16 00:58
Well, now I'm curious and you've opened the door with your access to microscopes and the technique to use them - how easy is it to look for any significant mineral deposits within the pores (actually pulled into the fibers as they absorb saliva) and between fibers as well as on the reed surface? These would, I assume, remain as solid precipitates after the water has evaporated.
Karl
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2009-03-16 11:50
Karl,
Minerals are more difficult to detect unless there is a relatively easy stain for them, calcium being one. I do have a scanning electron microscope equipped with detection equipment for minerals but even there the characteristic Xrays overlap some and even using low kV you would damage the reed during the analysis.
What I described above are relatively simple stains that you can see easily with the light microscope (and with fluorescence attachments). However, when I saw how much skin was left over after my playing I became convinced that it was responsible for a lot of my loss of reed life and a simple very light scraping with the very sharp reed knife seemed to remove it. Miraculously the reed responded even though it was dead before the light scraping. As some of the other posters have noted, there are other methods (washing with water and treating with a clean paper) that work as well. As an oboist I naturally gravitate towards THE KNIFE.
Eefer guy
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2009-03-16 13:33
(Disclaimer - I sell ReedlLife)
I too have looked at the build up of dead skin cells and mineral deposits (using polarized refractive microscopy) and chemical mineral detection chemistry. There is a significant buildup of both in well worn reeds.
No one can say with knowledge what makes a reed go bad - the breaking of reed structure due to vibration or build up of materials that inhibit reed vibration, but removing these buildups may, in some regard, prolong the life of a good reed.
The peroxide and hypertonic nature of the product ReedLife does remove, by physical and chemical reaction, the dead skin cell material and the hypotonic nature of the solution will dissolve mineral deposits. Peroxide by itself will remove valuable carbohydrate and sugars that are part of the reed structure but ReedLife has protective agents and humectants which minimize this damage.
Nothing will turn a bad playing reed from the start into a good reed, perhaps adjustments will help, but IME ReedLife does prolong the life of a good reed. How can I judge this?? - Just an anecdotal "observation" after playing thousands of reeds over time - and therefore not hard evidence!!
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
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