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Author: Noverbuf
Date: 2009-02-02 18:36
Please don't flame me for another generic question but I really need your help.
According to all reed strength charts Rico Royal #3 = Vandoren V12 #2.5
I found that when taking a fresh V12 #2.5 I can start playing on it almost immediately and after couple days they are mostly broken in.
Now I bought and tried Rico Royal #3 and I can harly blow through them. After two break-in sessions they are still stuffy and very unresponsive. Do reed strength charts fool me?
If you had your personal experience with these two brands could you please comment on how they compare?
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Author: Ed
Date: 2009-02-02 18:48
Those charts are meant as a general reference. Reeds vary quite a bit and different cuts often respond differently. I wouldn't not bother playing Rico Royal if I could help it, as the V12 is a better reed. Depending on availability, you would be better trying the Rico Grand Concert (either thick blank or regular) as they are a much better Rico product.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2009-02-02 22:12
In the first place, Rico Royal xx probably would not ever "equal" a Vandoren xx, regardless of the strength. They are cut differently.
Secondly, overall stiffness often varies somewhat from one box to another of the same brand and strength. You may have gotten a fluky box of RRs.
You don't say what type Vandoren you're using? Traditional? V12? Rue La Pic? Java? Even these are each cut differently from each other. Had you been using them steadily, or did you only experiment with one box? Again, if it was only one box, it might not be completely typical.
What mouthpiece are you using?
"Stuffy and unresponsive" don't generally get better during "break-in" unless there's also some manual balancing done to improve them. If a reed isn't responsive out of the box, you're best off trying a different one if you don't know how to balance it. And balancing won't really make the reed less stiff, although it can make it more responsive and vibrant by allowing it to vibrate more uniformly.
If the whole box seems stuffy and unresponsive, maybe either the cut or the strength is not a good fit with your mouthpiece. If a second box comes out the same way, I'd move on either to another brand or a different strength, but...
be sure if you can whether the stuffiness is because the reed is too stiff or because it's not stiff enough and is closing too easily. Sometimes it's easy to mistake the one problem for the other.
Karl
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2009-02-03 00:36
Well, yes. Noverbuf asked responders to compare the two - RR #3 and VD #2.5. I just didn't think the problem was as simple as that. To an extent (s)he's (I don't know who Noverbuf is or even a first name) is looking for a comparison of apples to oranges - all you might be able to say is that a single strength of one of the two brands will compare in resistance to a single strength of the other. But I'm skeptical that #3 RR in general are that much (if at all) heavier than #2.5 Vandoren (I *did* miss that the question is specifically about V12s - my carelessness), unless one of the boxes is off or the RR cut needs more of an embouchure adjustment than Noverbuf can or wants to make.
Royals, as far as I know are not made from as thick blanks as V12, so there is bound to be a different feel between them.
To go a little beyond the original question, Ed mentioned the Grand Concert reeds as an alternative to Royals - maybe the thick blank ones would compare more closely in feel and response to V12s, but the Grand Concerts are single-cut while the V12s are double-cut (a little roughly, but straight across nonetheless), which again makes them feel different unless you want to cut the bark back to a straight line on the GCs.
Implicit, I thought, in Noverbuf's question was that, although the Vandorens seem to play well, (s)he's searching for something to use instead, whether just out of wanderlust (which I would understand completely) or because of the cost of Vandorens, so the suggestions here (building on Ed's response) about Grand Concerts may not, I hope, be completely non-responsive. I guess it depends some on Noverbuf's reason for trying the Royals in the first place.
I did go a little beyond the question, too,because I thought the reference to "break-in sessions" not having improved the Royals' responsiveness was worth a comment.
Have I misread or misunderstood the question badly enough to have prompted your comment?
Thanks,
Karl
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Author: John Scorgie
Date: 2009-02-03 04:56
Karl --
You seem to have compressed an abundance of personal experience into a few sentences which include several important but neglected points about reed evaluation, comparison and adjustment.
FWIW, speaking as one who for many years has adjusted (to one degree or another) each and every reed which comes out of the box, I think you did an excellent job of responding to the inquiry, and I certainly agree with all of the advice you gave.
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Author: D
Date: 2009-02-03 05:43
Karl
You've pretty much covered everything I would have said as well. I too have found that different makes and also cuts of reed fit different mouthpieces better or worse. If it is a badly fitting reed no amount of trying other strengths or scrapping is going to make it a great reed, although some possibilities could become playable if you good with a knife.
Noverbuf; I tried some Mitchell Laurie reeds which were allegedly the equivalent strength to the Vandorens I had. Pretty much exactly the same result that you had. Some people love the ML reeds, but they didn't suit my set up. They made quite good glue spatulas though.
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Author: Noverbuf
Date: 2009-02-03 08:16
Hello,
Thanks for your detailed approach (especially Karl) to this matter, I thought the answer to my question would be simpler.
Yes, the cost of reeds is probably the primary factor that made me try Rico Royals. Noferbuf is he.
Anyway, if you were to discard all these profound reflections and were faced with a fact that you had to choose a Rico Royal reed 5 minutes before your concert what strength would you go for if you'd played Vandoren V12 #2.5 all your life?
I'm sure there must be some starting point of comparison. To me Rico Royals #3 feel harder then Vamdoren V12s #2.5. Substantially harder. Can anyone confirm this?
My MP is Vandoren 5RV (plain).
Post Edited (2009-02-03 08:19)
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2009-02-03 08:26
In my experience, Rico 3 = Vandoren Traditional 2.5
V12 is softer than traditional, so I'd expect V12 2.5 to be softer than Rico 3.
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Author: William
Date: 2009-02-03 15:28
I've never liked the Rico Royals, but have been having recent success with the Rico Reserves. I find the V12 & RR numbers to match up pretty well, so I play 3.5 strength with each, Kaspar Chicago #14 mpc. Break them in slowly a couple of minutes each for the first days. I saliva soak them--never water--and rub the vamps before and after each play. Air dry them on a flat surface--I use glass--for at least a day between each initial playing. If you try to play any reed straight out of the box for a whole gig, they will almost always become waterlogged and die an untimely death.
A "happy reed" is one that is allowed to become all it can be, one day at a time.
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