 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2008-12-14 17:47
Yesterday I was practicing out of the Drapkin bass clarinet excerpt books and was doing the little (Bb-C-D-Eb) that answers the contrabassoon similar series of notes starting 10 bars before measure marker #43 in Sorcerer's Apprentice. The smoothest, most in tune and most even way of playing that solo on the Buffet Prestige was by using the fingering for the low Eb and adding the octave key. However, when I did this in concert years ago I was playing a Selmer and used the A + side trill key for the Bb. However, as I remember the low Eb plus octave key for the Bb was VERY stuffy on the Selmer (the B was too). The A + side key was the worst option on the Prestige with the "normal" Bb fingering being a bit better. I especially like the very even timbre of the four notes played with the Eb + octave key too.
What do the professonal bass players use for this passage?
Eefer guy
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-12-14 18:14
I've never played this piece, but on my bass clarinet (same model as yours) the long Bb (low Eb + register key) is sharp and I would probably never use it if I wanted a good and in tune Bb. I use this fingering for an idea I'm basing some pieces on, but I've never used it when reading music. Both the regular Bb fingering and the side trill Bb are fine and possible to play in tune. There is only slight difference between them.
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2008-12-14 20:59
I went back and checked. I have my neck joint pulled out ~ 3/4", which is where the horn is most in tune with groups I play, of course give or take a bit depending upon the oboist. In that position the Bb played with the long fingering is in tune pretty well whereas the side throat and the octave key are a tad (but not bad) flat.
However, if I pull the neck joint in more what you guys have observed is true. The long Bb is sharp and the throat Bb and side are in tune.
The timbre of that Bb is so different than the notes that follow I like the sound of the long Bb much better in this instance, and luckily for me, that's where my horn is in tune too.
Eefer guy
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2008-12-14 23:56
In the 35+ years I've been playing bass clarinet I've never played the "throat" Bb using the low-Eb fingering plus register key, even if it's in tune -- too stuffy! It is possible to use the regular 'pinch' Bb and go "over the break" smoothly, probably that's what you should practice, IMHO.
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2008-12-15 00:08
Yeah even I wouldn't advocate as a substitute but IN THAT SOLO that Bb matches the other notes better. I don't have any trouble playing the notes but the TIMBRE of the throat Bb is WAY different than the other notes in that little run. Even when you put down the right hand keys the throat Bb is not nearly as resonant. The long fingered Bb is not stuffy on my horn but it certainly was on my old Selmer.
Eefer guy
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-12-15 01:11
I've always used the regular Bb fingering on my old Selmer and it's perfectly fine. You can keep the RH keys down for the Bb to make it smoother to the C if it doesn't make it flat. This passage needs to be smooth and in tune. If your break notes are sharp you can pull out the neck, unless it makes the Bb too flat. That's why it's so important to get an instrument that plays in tune or can be adjusted to play in tune, within reason of course. I just answered another post, "long B very sharp", on how to do that, check it out. ESP www.peabody.jhu.edu/457
Listen to a little Mozart, live performance.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
Post Edited (2008-12-15 03:29)
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2008-12-15 12:07
Ed,
I think the side and throat keys are one real advantage the Selmer (even my old one) has over the Buffet's. On the Buffet's the side key trills from Bb to B and Bb to C are just awful; both the B and C are way off. On the Selmer I used these a lot in rapid passages where a single B or C occurred but they're way too out of tune to use even in a rapid passage on the Buffet. However, it's the one real source of complaint I have on that horn.
Oddly enough the Prestige alto side keys give fine in tune notes. Must be just some small different in placement or hole size that has made the difference.
Eefer guy
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-12-15 13:39
I was just practicing so I decided to check those things on my bass too. I put the tuner on 441 and played with the neck almost all the way in (maybe a mm out). I checked that some notes are pretty much in tune this way.
The long Bb is, like I remembered, very sharp, and impossible to really play in tune. It is a bit stuffier than the B (which isn't stuffy, to clarify in case I was accidently giving the impression that it was).
The throat A and Bb are very possible to play in tune and I would consider them to not have intonation problems. Obviously they have to be a little flexible. The A is very in tune, and the Bb just very slightly sharp.
The side trill key Bb is very in tune, only a little flatter than the A, and very usable. The tone of this fingering is slightly better than the regular throat Bb, but both are fine.
The B with the fingering of throat A and top trill key is good enough both in terms of tone and intonation to use for trills and also for other places, though I don't really remember ever using that, except for some ideas that I use for some pieces (i.e. not for a regular or trill B note). The response is good and the tone is a little stuffy but ok.
The B played with throat B and the Bb trill key is very flat. Maybe ok for trills, I doubt I'll ever use this for the B, and same for the C. Only if I press with my lips like crazy I can get the C in tune and the B close to in tune. I think putting those tone holes a little higher might be a good idea, but I definitely prefer a more in tune side Bb than an in tune A# to B trill, and I think it would make the side Bb sharper more than the B.
There isn't a very significant difference in tone between the throat Bb and long B, definitely nothing that would create a problem and prevent me from using both of them in a melody, etc.
Re the other thread, the long B isn't especially sharp. If I try to play it as sharp as I can, then with the tuner and neck as I mentioned, it is approx. 10 cents sharp.
Post Edited (2008-12-16 04:26)
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