 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: bahamutofskycon
Date: 2008-06-02 01:54
For those of you who are/were in military bands (any service, both "regular" and/or "premier");
Are members of regular bands able to audition and transfer to any service's premier band?
For example: can someone in a regular Army band audition and transfer to the premier Air Force band?
If this is possible, is it an easy procedure or a hard one? Is it theoretically possible but practically impossible? Common or rare?
All of this of course assumes that you could win a premier band audition.
I'm interested in any insight.
Thank you,
Steve
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Author: SVClarinet09
Date: 2008-06-02 02:02
This is what I was told from an Army bandsmen. Yes it is possible, in fact you receive "seniority" if say for example it came down to an army bandsmen and then a civilian, the army bandsmen wins the audition because they have seniority over the civilian. The army bandsmen automatically fits all of the premier band's requirements to join.
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2008-06-02 02:32
I speak from an Army point of view as I understand it.
It is possible, but difficult if you're not in a MACOM band (these are bands that work for 4-star general officers).
The reason for this is additional duties are less time-consuming for the band members as they are usually more heavily staffed, and more time can be devoted to musical development (i.e. practicing and study).
When you're working full-time in a line band, it's tough to keep up with the students you're competing against in terms of preparing for the auditions. Also, the style of playing required by a regular band in comparison to a premier band is a bit different. The instrumentation commonly encountered in regular army bands allows for 4-5 clarinets, and often these sections are understrength. You may me one of three clarinets competing with six trumpets. Premier bands usually have the 2 to 1 balance the other way. Basically, line bandsmen often play too loud to fit into a premier band clarinet section. An audition coordinator for one of these bands clued me into this. I'm not aware of anyone that has recently made this jump in the food chain. I think Tom Puwalski, a regular poster on the BBoard, did make this jump, but that was quite some time ago.
"Seniority" only exists (and is also largely dependent on the commander of the ensemble) in the instance that a civilian and an existing soldier are deemed equally qualified. In this instance, the existing soldier may be offered the position over the civilian as they are a "guaranteed" hire. There is no chance that they'll be hired only to drop out of basic training thus wasting an entire audition process.
Truth be told, the whole thing boils down to who can do the job best!
Christopher Nichols, D.M.A.
Assistant Professor of Clarinet
University of Delaware
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Author: Daniel Frazelle
Date: 2008-06-02 02:51
Hi Steve,
I don't have a 100% answer for you, partially because it is a rare situation and partially because all rules of ending enlistments and switching services are tricky and can be inconsistent. From what I can tell, switching services is almost no easier than ending your enlistment early. From a military perspective, there is very little difference on paper between a premier band and a line/field/fleet band. The justification for changing services would be hard to make, I'd imagine. I can think of a couple situations recently where it has not been easy to just move someone from one premier band to another. While this is not the scenario you asked about, I find it hard to believe that the case would look that different to those making the decisions.
Hopefully Ben Redwine will add his thoughts. I know Ben was in an Army field band prior to winning his position in the Naval Academy Band. I'm unsure of the timing, however.
I know that premier bands are thrilled to bring in musicians who have worked their way up, but I can say with certainty that the issue of seniority would not factor into a current audition. It has happened before and will happen again, but it is rare for a musician to make the jump for the reasons listed above. A typical military musician does get drawn away from the time and skills needed to compete at the level needed for the premier bands. It can happen, but really doesn't often.
I wish I could give you a more definite response. Feel free to contact me for any information if needed.
Daniel Frazelle
United States Navy Band
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Author: redwine
Date: 2008-06-02 11:20
Hello,
Going from one service to another is difficult. Everyone doing that in my band recently (and me too, not so recently) had to wait until their regular enlistment with their prior service ended before making the switch to the Navy. Coming from a service band to a premier band of the same service is easier, but not automatic. One has to wait for release from the band with which they are currently assigned. If the band is short on clarinetists (in our example), then the audition winner would have to wait until their replacement arrives before being released to the premier band.
I've heard rumors that the Air Force Band (in D.C.) is cutting positions, so I would stay away from that one, if it were me. I'd hate to audition and win, only to be told that there was no position. However, that's just a rumor that I've heard, so check your own facts and make your own determinations.
If I had it all to do over again, I would have gone to bachelor's and master's (and possibly doctorate) programs before entering the service. I would have racked up as many loans as I could (up to $65,000), then I would have joined the Army music program, as they have the most liberal college loan repayment plan. After they paid off my student loans, then I would have made the determination about whether to make the military a career or move on to teaching, performing, etc.
I don't agree with the "seniority" comment, however, if two auditionees play comparably, someone with prior service probably does have more weight because the hiring band does not have to wait for that person to complete basic training. In our band's situation, a retiring member must actually leave before their replacement can be hired, so that can create a lapse in members for up to a year if the auditionee goes to basic training. The wait is much shorter if basic training is not necessary (is it ever necessary for the band?--this coming from someone that did it twice, once for the Army and once for the Navy).
Please feel free to contact me directly, or on this forum (but you should send me a notice if you ask a question on this forum that you'd like me to answer, as I check it sporadically), if you have any specific questions or want further clarification.
Best of luck!
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: hrvanbeek
Date: 2008-06-02 12:10
Some very good responses/info thus far...
I would just like to add that, yes, it is difficult switching services. Basically, it comes down to this - it's easier to switch when you're "time is up" in one so you can "get out" and join the other. Not impossible though as it happens fairly frequently.
It is certainly possible for any member possessing the necessary skills/talents/drive from any regular band (be it MACOM or not) to audition for and possibly win a premiere band position.
Existing military bandsman vs. civilian is not an issue. This "seniority" thing is irrelevant. It all comes down to who's qualified for the position.
Post Edited (2008-06-02 12:12)
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2008-06-02 12:32
I'm enjoying reading all these responses! I think it's wonderful that so many service band members read and post on this bulletin board.
Ben, I'm surprised to hear that you had to go through Navy basic training after already having been through Army basic training! How did they compare?
From personal experience, it's not as big a fiasco as people think it is. At first, I enjoyed it! I wasn't doing so well financially when I joined the Army (I think this is often the case). The steady income, three meals a day, and free rent were a treat! After a few weeks, that did wear off and I was looking forward to getting out of there.
Christopher Nichols, D.M.A.
Assistant Professor of Clarinet
University of Delaware
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Author: redwine
Date: 2008-06-02 13:30
Hello,
They changed the rules about 6 months after I went to Navy basic training, so prior service does not have to go now.
I did Army basic training when I was 17 years old and it was a piece of cake.
Navy basic training was at 28 years old and was more difficult. Not physically, but mentally. At that stage in life, you (I anyhow) feel that you've paid your dues and I really didn't need someone younger than I screaming at me for ridiculous reasons. I was basically just bored the entire time and time seemed to crawl painfully slowly.
Looking back, I would say that Army basic training was more physical than Navy. I'm glad that part of my life is behind me!
I now have 6 years until retirement and I look forward to that!
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2008-06-02 17:38
Beware of the "line band" leader who threatens any of his members with being levied to a combat zone if he finds out they are auditioning for one of the "premiere" bands. This happened to one of my former students who was in a post band at Fort Belvoir. When he auditioned for the US Army Band, not only did his Warrant Officer CO put him on a levy for Vietnam, but he called the Army Band to tell them that this kid was a discipline problem!
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2008-06-02 18:56
Wow Larry,
That sounds really old school !!!!
Sorry to hear that that had happened to a former student, but in today's climate where a band slot is even harder to fill than a regular GI (which is getting pretty tough too), no one is going to jack you around like that !!!
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: bahamutofskycon
Date: 2008-06-03 01:45
Wow... thank you for all the great responses. Very informative and interesting. This is a topic I've been thinking about for a while now and this has really helped shed some light on it.
Steve
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Author: Blake Arrington
Date: 2008-06-03 11:49
Howdy,
At the AF Band in DC...yes and no we are cutting positions. The AF Bands, career field wide are cutting by 25%. For us, we are reducing by attrition. Basically, we have many folks that have been in over 20 years and want to get out. Many of their enlistment contracts will be ending before 2010 or 2012, or whenever we are required to lose the 25%.
As for stay away...that is pretty easy as we are in a kind of hiring freeze. The Airmen of Note (our jazz ensemble) just hired 2 saxes...those two new guys won't have much to worry about. They won't show up and then be told...sorry we have to lose you. It costs the AF less for us new guys b/c our salaries are lower and we don't "pay for ourselves" in regards to recouping training costs in about 2 years. Older folks that are higher ranking and have been here for 20 plus years will cost the AF more money. Their salaries are higher...so if the AF is trying to save money, they would want to lose them first.
We just had a piano player leave our band for the Navy Band. He had to wait for a while to enter the Navy and go to knife and fork school. He had to receive commander's approval before auditioning and then was released by the commander from AF service. He was a civilian for a few months and now if in the Navy Band.
Hope all this helps,
Blake Arrington
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