 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: alisdair
Date: 2007-12-22 05:45
Hello,
I have a very old late 30s Bb Buffet Evette Shaeffer clarinet.
I have recently had it overhauled and it is lovely... however following a flight from the UK to Australia (the instrument was well packed and secure) I have found the side/pinky E/B key feels stiff / spongy and occaisionally sticks (for both hands)
Am I right in thinking the rod/pillars for this key need cleaning and reoiling? Where can I find detailed instructions for DIY work on this key?
Could the travelling have exposed the instrument to conditions in which the oil evaporates faster? Is there anything else that I should look after following a long journey?
Thanks very much any advice gratefully received.
Seasons greatings everybody!
All the best for the NEw Year
Alisdair
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-12-22 07:37
Try turning the pivot screws for the LH pinky keys (there is only 1 screw on this model right?) a half turn counter-clockwise. If that doesn't help, try turning the pivot screws for the E/B key a quarter turn counter-clockwise.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-12-22 08:21
Oil doesn't evaporate, so the only thing I can think of is the clarinet could have been knocked in transit bending the LH levers (undo the screws to see if they bind at a certain point while you're turning the screwdriver).
As it's summer in Australia, the humidity can cause cross mounted keys to bind - if they were swaged during the overhaul to take out end play, they could now be too tight between the pillars as the wood has expanded.
What about the top joint side keys and throat A key - do they still work as they did, or have they become sluggish?
And was your clarinet taken with you on board as part of your hand luggage, or put in the cargo hold inside your suitcase?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-12-22 12:43
Chris- wouldn't the change from winter to summer make the cross mounted keys loose, not tight?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-12-22 21:22
It depends on humidity rather than temperature on wooden instruments - if cross mounted pillars move further apart as the diameter of the body increases with humidity, the screw will be bent slightly (if it's a good tight fit in the pillar head).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2007-12-22 21:27
it sounds like you have a bent key somewhere that might have been caused by a hard bump?
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2007-12-23 00:07
I'd suggest oiling the "moving parts", then moving and observing the ?long? keys to see if they interfere [rub] with others, or some of the corkings under/around those key are loose/gone, in addition to the above rec's. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-12-23 03:51
Just a thought as this is an old horn. I think that the wood has expanded from the weather change. If I remember correctly, those clarinets all had pillars that were threaded and 'screwed' into the wood. New clarinets are placed into a cutout and a seperate screw holds it in. Anyway, the old style can get loose and twist. Also, the spring on the E/B key places force that pushes the key up AND pushes the pillar clockwise. So, IF the threads are not tight the pillar is twisted a bit clockwise and is causing the binding. The solution is a good repair person that knows how to use superglue.
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Author: alisdair
Date: 2007-12-23 05:04
Thanks everybody for all your helpful advice.
Now bizarrely having picked up a jewellers tool set from Bunnings, I returned to find the keys had loosened up a little of their own accord.
They weren't perfect and still had a slight sluggish response. I found that loosening the LH pinky key didn't help in this case, however loosening the screws for the E/B key an 8th turn did the job.
It does suggest humidity is the factor here, as it is a much brighter day today. However it is certainly less humid at the moment in Western Australia than back in the UK.
Cheers everybody
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-12-23 06:38
"If I remember correctly, those clarinets all had pillars that were threaded and 'screwed' into the wood. New clarinets are placed into a cutout and a seperate screw holds it in. Anyway, the old style can get loose and twist."
Clarinets still have mostly 'the old style' threaded pillars (screwed directly into the wood) as well as ancored pillars (with the base plate), nothing has changed there.
Anchored pillars are more expensive to make as a seperate base plate has to be hard soldered onto them, then fitted into a specially milled out slot (cut out on the CNC milling machine along with all the other holes and slots) so the base plate is flush with the surface of the body.
Though there are threaded pillars with large flanged bases which can be anchored into place with a set screw (cutting into the base) to prevent them turning once they're firmly in. This is much easier to do (and more economical) than fitting base plates to anchored pillars.
Though on older Buffets, the lower of the E/B pillars (just above the bell tenon) is threaded, but has a projecting lug soldered onto it which sits proud of the surface and is then secured with a wood screw countersunk into it to prevent it turning.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-12-23 09:43
My mistake. I don't know the ins and outs of every brand of clarinet. I thought that the cutout/screw was more standard. I didn't know that companies still use the 'set screw' but I have seen them on old Conns.
In any case, the old Buffets did not have a set screw and the pillar can twist, right?
I have Buffets from '28 and 1896 that had this problem and I don't recall any lock screw at all. Some took a lot of superglue to stop it from twisting.
But, I haven't used those clarinets in a while so I might be thinking of a different horn. hmm...
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2007-12-24 15:19
Possibilities:
1. E/B key fitted accurately between posts starts jamming between the posts when loser humidity over a period shrinks the timber.
2. Pivot point screws (if the E/B key has them) have been accurately adjusted for precision hinging of the E/B key, but the timber has now shrunk and the key is binding between the pivot point screws.
3. One or both of the E/B key's mounting posts being loose, especially the one with the spring on it, such that it twists, jamming the point pivot inside the key, or the post directly binding against the key.
4. Cylindrical type point screw is bent, such that when it is screwed up tight, it is out of line with the hole in the end of the key.
5. Hinge rod (if the E/B key has one) could be bent, &/or the hinge tube bent, &/or gummy residues (of inappropriate oil) in this pivot binding the hinge, &/or rust in the hinge.
6. Hinge rod has a bent threaded portion, such that the rod gets a slight bend when tightened into the post. This bend binds the hinge tube..
7. In the vicinity of the link for the levers to the keys, there is binding between the F#/C# and E/B keys or levers. There are several possibilities of where they could bind there.
8. The linkage between the E/B lever and the E/B key is of the pin type. The lever's hinge tube is accurate around it's hinge rod, and there is little play between the pin and the hole it engages. Therefore binding occurs.(The lever and the key both rotate in different axes, so either the pin must must have the freedom to move a little across the hole, or the hinge must have enough sloppiness to allow the pin to act freely in the centre of the hole.)
9. The lever's pin must operate freely in the hole it engages, so if the lever has had a knock, or indeed the key has, then this may no longer be the case.
..... and probably more that don't come to mind at present.
An appropriate solution must deal with a clearly identified cause! a good technician would have found the problem in a small fraction of the time taken to write this, and almost certainly dealt with it in less time than it took to write this. You get good value from a good technician!
"however loosening the screws for the E/B key an 8th turn did the job."
Loosening pivots may be band-aid the symptoms, but is certainly not a cure. It introduces other problems, including E/B not accurately operating the F/C key, E/B pad not sealing well on tone hole, excessive noise, pivots working out such that the instrument suddenly fails, other parts binding against each other, or in the case of a hinge rod, the hinging occurring between the rod and its posts, causing wear in these parts, hence sloppy mounting, sloppy pad closing, and sloppy linkage to F/C
BTW, Chris wrote, "Oil doesn't evaporate"
I disagree. It evaporates SLOWLY, some grades (especially synthetics) evaporating slower than others. And it evaporates a lot more slowly when pivots are accurate, so that there is very little air exposed to the air. However oil is also removed from pivots by wicking into the case lining when such lining contacts the post/key junction.
BTW, IMO lack of oil is NEVER the reason for a key binding.
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