 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: aminor
Date: 2007-11-05 13:55
Hi, I need to tell you all this to see what you think because I can't tell my Conductor or gossip to anyone in the band about it.
At our last concert, we were told to be there at 3pm so we all were. Then the conductor waited until 10 minutes before concert time and then took us through our tuning paces and a few bars of each song and proceeded to rant and berate us and tell us how awful we were and then we had to tune one by one all through the sections and he then told us if we were flat or sharp. This is all in front of a full house audience. They were just sitting there staring at us while the conductor is yelling at us (for no reason).
Then 2 clarinets walked in late after the concert had started and they pranced all the way up front while the MC was giving the opening talk and then there was no where for them to sit and the band started passing stands and chairs across everybody to the clarinet section! Then the oboe's cell phone went off RIGHT BEFORE WE WERE READY TO PLAY THE FIRST SONG! The conductor had his hands in the air and the guy's cell phone goes off and we all just waited until he found it and turned it off which took forever because he wasn't even hurrying.
This all is unbelievable to me. I conduct myself with a high degree of professionalism and expect the same from the Conductor and the Band even though it is an Adult Community Band. I was so glad I didn't have any family or friends there as I would have been so embarrassed.
Do you find this behavior unacceptable or is it just me?
Thank you.
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Author: ChrisArcand
Date: 2007-11-05 13:59
Wow. Not just you...CA
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2007-11-05 14:00
That's the most unacceptable example of concert etiquette I've ever heard.
There's so much wrong with that fiasco, I don't know where to begin.
Christopher Nichols, D.M.A.
Assistant Professor of Clarinet
University of Delaware
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-11-05 14:16
Good grief! This is not just a lack of professionalism, it's a lack of basic table manners.
I feel there's something simmering under the lid...
--
Ben
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2007-11-05 15:16
I would find another group with which to perform, if at all possible. There is so much wrong with that scenario, that it would take a major overhaul of the entire group to correct everything.
The conductor should be replaced. Now. Next concert, you should all have warmed up for at leastt 10-15 minutes prior to tuning. Then do a quick check with a tuner. In our group, just about everyone has one in his/her pocket. Then tune to the actual tuning note played by your first chair.
The two late clarinets should not have been allowed to join the group until intermission (if you had one).
Shooting would have been too good for the oboe. Make him listen to Kenny G for a couple of days nonstop. If that isn't the equibvalent to eternal damnation, I don't know what is.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: Jesse
Date: 2007-11-05 15:35
That's horrible. Telling students how awful they are before a concert is no way to boost morale. I mean, I would be fine with the director pointing out things like "you're too sharp" or "you are rushing" but how does it help degrading the entire band's image before a performance, especially in front of a live audience??
Personally I prefer not to play a song if I'm just about to play it for a concert. It makes things more fresh. I like it when the director establishes a "warm up tune" or some other kind of routine (like playing scales in the circle of fifths) instead. But I'm going off topic here.
As for the two late clarinetists and the oboist...bah.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-11-05 16:14
To yell at the orchestra for no reason in front of the audience to me sounds like a really serious personality problem. To have your cell phone ring is worse enough as someone in the audience, but one of players? Sound like that person didn't really want to play there. It all sounds very strange :-(
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2007-11-05 16:35
If I were playing in a group with a conductor like that, I'd have turned my cell phone ON and asked a friend to call during the concert. That is, if I hadn't walked out.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: aminor
Date: 2007-11-05 17:28
Strange indeed but it did happen. The only thing strange about it is that no one else seemed to notice or mind except one other clarinet and we've been discussing saying something. Thank you for your supporting comments.
We have another concert tonight. If the same type of unprofessionalism happens again, I may have to say something.....but probably won't because I don't want to lose a gig. I have learned how to not take on other people's problems. I can just sit there and play and have a gig, or I can make a stink and get black-balled and then have no gig.
I have to remember that the people who were the culprits are the ones who look like idiots - not me, no one even noticed me.
It was good to rant about it though with you - which is what I needed.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2007-11-05 18:42
Wait wait wait... you're talking "gig"... is this a PAID ensemble?
I wouldn't make a stink. I'd just call to let them know you won't be joining them for any further concerts. If they ask why and you want to spill your guts, have at it. If they ask why and you DON'T want to spill your guts, a good way out is to say you have a "scheduling conflict." Which you can do in all honesty. After all, on Mondays from 7:30 to 9:00 (or whenever the group meets) you have written, very clearly, in your calendar, "NOT in this particular ensemble." And playing in this particular ensemble conflicts with that.
Anyways, that's a way out of a gig without any nastiness on either side.
I find situations like this fairly common, and I assign the vast majority of the credit/blame to the conductors. The conductor is usually by far the least experienced at what they're doing in the organization, and, oddly enough, the one person that receives almost no criticism and is in charge of telling everyone else what they're doing right and wrong.
A skilled conductor (which is, unfortunately, fairly rare) can turn around even the lousiest group of musicians, but instead, most conductors wave their arms around, expecting the ensemble to do all the work, then assume it's everyone else's fault when things go badly. "The conductor just stands up here and keeps time. It's almost not necessary to have one except to keep the beat together" is just about the most erroneous, irresponsible attitude to conducting possible, but I hear it all the time. Sure, if you get good enough musicians together, they can often do without. But unless the ensemble is capable of improving itself on its own, the conductor is the only one who has the slightest prayer of rescuing a group from a downward spiral of unmusicality.
I've played in ensembles with lots of guest and student conductors, and, if you know what to watch for, it's literally night and day between the ensemble's playing the same piece from one minute to the next when another person stands up front. And yet, so many conductors don't realize this, and just flail about helplessly, under the horrific assumption that they have very little influence over what the group sounds like.
Yes, it's hard... because so few good conductors are out there, there are so few people to teach new good conductors. And the only thing worse than a bad conductor is a bad conductor who thinks he's a good conductor.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: aminor
Date: 2007-11-05 19:23
hey Alex, no it's not a paid gig, I'm just calling it a gig. It's Adult Community Band. I place the blame with the conductor too. I think they are very important and I personally look to all of mine as the leader and to improve me.
If I would have been the conductor I wouldn't have let the clarinets come in late, I would have told them to turn right back around and leave. I certainly wouldn't have berated my musicians right before showtime. And at the next rehearsal we all would have "gotten a few things straight" namely how to be a professional musician.
You are right on with your last statement about bad conductors thinking they're good. That's what we've got.
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Author: marcia
Date: 2007-11-05 21:22
This is ALL so bad I am almost speechless!! If it were (was??) me I would have nothing further to do with such a group!
Marcia
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Author: Brenda ★2017
Date: 2007-11-05 21:30
Sounds like the basis for a movie's story line to me. Write out something and see what you can do with it!
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Author: DaveF
Date: 2007-11-05 22:45
Regarding the cellphone...........I played a big concert last Friday night with my orchestra, a girls choir, rock band, dancers.......rather bizarre, but another story. Anyway, backstage I observed the girls choir director giving last minute instructions, including saying "I remind you that a cellphone going off during performance is grounds for immediate dismissal".
Dave F.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2007-11-06 00:40
Or ejector seats a la the one in Bond's car in "Goldfinger."
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2007-11-06 00:46
I just read the initial post to my wife, a cellist and teacher.
She suggests an anonymous letter to your board, governing body, or to the "maestro" himself. Adding that performing ensembles (orchestral, band, or otherwise) are becoming few and far between, and to conduct themselves in such a way (all the offenders) they are NOT contributing positively to the cause, only negatively.
I'd object vociferously as long as I wasn't threatening another gig of mine. Or...just dissassociate yourself from the group as suggested above.
Would it be worth taking the time to say something to the group itself about the actions of the members? (understanding that the actions of the maestro would be implied?).
Why did everyone wait for the conductor to tune in the first place? What if the players took that little bit out of his hands by beginning well ahead of schedule?
Is the conductor the primary motivating and organizational force in the ensemble? If so then leave.
James
Gnothi Seauton
Post Edited (2007-11-06 00:55)
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Author: davyd
Date: 2007-11-06 16:07
The fact that there weren't enough chairs & stands for the clarinet players is not the conductor's fault; it's a stage management issue. If this group doesn't have a stage manager, self-appointed or otherwise, section leaders need to take the responsibility to see that their section is properly furnished.
If the latecomers are strong players, especially if they have key solos, I would be inclined to give them a tad bit of slack. We're all going to be caught in traffic (or some such occaisonal issue) now and then.
As for the issue of live cell phones in the pockets of amateurs/volunteers, I'm often inclined to wonder: if this player really urgently must be reached immediately, why is he/she even at the concert in the first place? Why isn't he/she at the house/office/hospital/etc. dealing with the crisis? I know it's usually not that simple, especially if the player is a soloist.
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2007-11-06 16:18
I think it's as simple as this: the conductor comes and conduct everything else is up to the rest of the band. And we are not talking about kids we are talking about adults who should be able to organise who does what.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2007-11-06 16:29
I think there were ample chairs, davyd... the players just weren't there to fill them.
As for live cell phones, it's almost always a matter of "I forgot to turn it off" not "I need to have it on." Still inexcusable, though.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2007-11-06 17:14
My cell, wallet, etc, goes in my case as the instrument comes out.
Please don't steal my stuff if we're every on a gig together!
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Jaysne
Date: 2007-11-08 01:26
Any conductor who berates an adult community band is in the wrong job. As a rule, the range of ability in such a group is going to be vast, with most tending toward the wanting end. People are there to have a good time and have fun making music, not to create lasting works of art. To do what he did is inexcusable and wrong.
The clarinet players should have waited until a number was finished before coming on stage. And they should have figured out ahead of time, while they were waiting, that they would need extra chairs and stands and gotten them.
Cell phones? What can you say. They are an evil fosited upon the performing arts community. The reason you have to make an announcement at the beginning of concerts to please turn off your cell phone is because people are too stupid to remember to do it themselves. If I had been the conductor, I would have not waited for that oboe player to turn it off. I would have just gone right ahead and started the piece, and then talked to him after the concert.
All this said, I'd say that outside of the conductor's uncalled-for behavior, this is all to be expected in a community band. You may get a handful of folks like yourself who understand and value professionalism, but most people don't feel the need to bother with it. And that's fine, if it's okay with everyone--as I said, they just want to have fun. The only thing I could recommend is perhaps writing an anonymous letter to the conductor (you indicated that he would not get it if you spoke up). And then try to find another community band.
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Author: Jaysne
Date: 2007-11-08 01:42
In response to davyd's question:
"if this player really urgently must be reached immediately, why is he/she even at the concert in the first place? Why isn't he/she at the house/office/hospital/etc. dealing with the crisis?"
There almost never is a crisis. The reason some people keep their cell phones on all the time--including in a concert--is because it gives them a sense of self-importance. Being instantly available to anyone at anytime is a boost--a false one, of course--to their self-esteem. In fact, I would say that certain people who always have their cells on are among the last people in the world who would have a crisis, because there is probably nothing much else going on in their lives, and a live cell phone is a cry for someone to call and make their lives interesting.
Outside of the president or governor or mayor, no one in the world needs to be available all the time. To think so confuses what you are doing with what you could be doing, resulting in a needlessly cluttered life.
It may be hard to believe, but not too long ago the world got along just fine without cell phones.
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Author: haptown
Date: 2007-11-08 22:12
I'm not making excuses for the musician with the rogue cell phone, but I think it's fair to say that for many of us it's easy to forget about our cell phones and that they are on. I'm the kind of person who needs a reminder to turn it off when I'm out and about (i.e. in the doctors office, at a symphony performance, or at the movie theater). Once I turn mine on I forget about it until it rings.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2007-11-08 22:19
Indeed. I really don't notice mine is on until I get a call. I've carried my phone around for days, turned off, because I shut it off for a rehearsal and forgot to turn it back on.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-11-08 22:40
Yeah, but that darn beast should be on one's checklist just like "Teeth scrubbed? Check. Spare reed in case? Check. Concert folder? Check. ....".
--
Ben
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Author: Jaysne
Date: 2007-11-08 23:54
I do have a cell, but I almost never give out my number because I hardly ever have it on. I don't keep it on because I just don't want to be bothered with having to recharge every four days. The only time I really use it is if I am late for something and I need to call from the road to let them know I am going to be late. I would rather have people call my home and leave a message on my answering machine, which I can check from the road using my cell. And I don't want to be the silly person whose cell goes off in a bad place and it's only a friend calling to say hi.
I mean, how often do we get a cell phone call out of the blue that is really that important? Why go to the trouble and possible embarassment? The call the oboe player got was probably his wife reminding him to buy some eggs on the way home from the concert.
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Author: Mike Clarinet
Date: 2007-11-09 08:03
In my community band, there is one person who keeps his phone on deliberately during rehearsal. he is a doctor, is sometimes on call, and sometimes has to take calls in rehearsal. He slips out quietly, has his conversation and slips back in quietly. Everyone knows why, everyone is happy. However, come concert time, he trys to arrange things so that he is not on call, and his phone is switched off. If he cannot arrange things so that he is not on call, he cannot do the concert. In an amateur band, that is an acceptable and responsible attitude. If anyone else's phone goes in rehearsal, there is a hurried "sorry...sorry" as the culprit finds their phone and turns it off, amongst a load of good-natured abuse. Some of the comittee leave their phones on to take calls from band members who find at the last minute they will be late or cannot make a rehearsal due to circumstances beyond their control. Again, they will slip out, take the call, slip in and pass on any messages to section leaders and MD. Again, considered acceptable in rehearsal, but not in a concert. As far as I know, no-one's phone has gone off whilst we are on stage, but certainly no-one would be rude enough to sit on a stage and have a conversation about the price of fish in front of a paying audience.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-11-09 10:33
There's still the "silent" vibrator alarm...
--
Ben
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2007-11-09 15:41
For phones in rehearsals, there's always this rule which works quite well:
If your phone goes off, you bring food for everyone next time.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2007-11-09 18:53
Clearly the oboist should develop a set routine that involves turning off the cell before the rehearsal or concert, or at least setting the infernal device on "vibrate" for the rehearsal; and the clarinet players who showed up late should show up on time; and the person responsible for putting out enough chairs should learn how to count. But all that stuff is fairly standard-issue, everyday aggravation compared to the conductor's behavior. He sounds as if he's a few notes short of a scale.
When somebody makes a great big show of berating subordinates in front of an audience, there's something wrong with the guy. That's not normal behavior, even among jerks. Does he drink? Is he on drugs? Is he mentally ill? Since you're not in a position to diagnose him, I think a small delegation of the quiet people who don't get themselves noticed might want to pay a discreet visit to the conductor's supervisor and simply describe what happened. Might not be a bad idea to lure the local media to attend the next concert, as well, preferably with a video camera: Get something that passes for objective documentation, in case he does something worse.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-11-09 18:57
Unfortunately this thread must be closed.
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