 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2007-06-09 05:18
What's your favorite barrel that works well for a buffet? so far, backun's have an extremely sound opening experience. whats your fav?
Everyone is tapping into the rosewood barrel design.
Allen Segal barrels
Fobes barrels
muncy barrels
backun barrels
dr's power barrel
charles bay barrel
pyne barrel
Guy chadash barrels
Zinner barrels
DEG barrels (eddie daniels version and A,B,C series)
Robery Scott barrels
Springer
Pascal Veraquin
Gigliotti barrels??
Walter Grabner (i thought he retailed barrels)
Rideneour ivorlin barrels
Chadash by buffet
moennig by buffet
Peter powell barrels? (haven't heard much about)
Click barrel
Bradley adjustable barrel: adjusts from the middle.
Howarth barrel
Interchangabore clarinet barrel (http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6054644-description.html)
Krystal convertabore metal insert system? http://convertabore.com/
PB clarinet barrel? http://www.greek-turkish-clarinet.com/pb.htm
peter johnson clarinet barrels?
That's all i could dig up for now. so many barrel makers!
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
Post Edited (2007-06-10 06:07)
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2007-06-09 11:40
I find the Chadash barrels to work the best with current R-13 bore clarinets. The Moening bore was designed for older clarinets and is antiquated now.
And well, Backun... can you get a bigger mismatch between clarinet and barrel design?
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Author: Ed
Date: 2007-06-09 12:31
Both Moennnig and Chadash work well. I like both. Both were designed for the R-13. You really have to see what works for your particular set up and your taste. Different mouthpieces may need slight differences in barrels.
Some of the Backuns that I have played have been very smooth, but have not had some of the ring in the sound that I was looking for. He makes many different models/woods, so I am sure something would do the trick.
I have heard nice things about the new Muncy barrels and current Fobes barrels, but have not had the opportunity to try either yet.
(I realize that likely doesn't help much)
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Author: shmeon
Date: 2007-06-09 15:46
Clark W. Fobes barrels are wonderful. You've got to try them. I have a set and they're the best things since sliced bread...or left hand Eb keys. Seriously though, Clark Fobes' barrels are very very very good. Several pros in the SF Bay Area use them. Check out his website: www.clarkwfobes.com
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2007-06-09 17:23
That has to be the longest list of barrel providers ever compiled.
To which I add Scott, Springer, Pascal Veraquin, and that dude who drills a hole and adds a microphone pickup. Gigliotti also had a barrel (delrin insert in wood, designed for the 10G, and sometimes made by Mike Hammer). And letsnot forget my friend Walter Grabner.
Re: Moennig Taper vs Chadash etc:
Once again, the current Buffet Moennig taper is NOT the same as the one used by Moennig himself.
Why??
Because the present bore of the instrument is ever so slightly different than it was when Hans M first styled the barrel.
One of my original Moennig barrels, obtained from his shop (glass display case to the right of the entrance door, containing at least 25 barrels and an equal number of mouthpieces) measured .604 at the top. The current batch measures .590+/- .002. In acoustical terms, the difference is enough to maneuver NCC1701 in it (ie BIG).
Rosewood? Again, there are many species. Some species are great for clarinets.
Some are totally unsuitable, having wide grain and porosity and turning characteristics unacceptable for woodwind use. . My favorite, and unfortunately most costly. is Kingwood.**
**Late edit 11/11/2009: I no longer like Kingwood and no longer make Kingwood barrels
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2009-11-12 16:37)
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Author: bufclar
Date: 2007-06-09 17:38
I use ringless Chaddash Barrels that I got from him directly and they are superb for my R13's and M13 Lyre. I can't imagine using anything else. I tried many barrels over the last couple of years and these by far gave the best results. Very acceptable tunning and they seem to have a creamy ringing quality to the sound. Buffet Moening's were a close second and Fobes third. Everything else I tried was not even close.
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Author: mnorswor
Date: 2007-06-09 21:47
Having just tried Muncy's new Buffet barrels... I can honestly say that I was impressed. They're worth giving a try and may even be something you prefer.
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Author: pelo_ensortijado
Date: 2007-06-09 22:52
anyone had any experience with an RC with a chadashbarrel??
i have that setup with a B40mpc and that works just superb for me! an allready excellent sound has gotten far better.
anything that works better with the RC?
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-06-09 23:07
> In acoustical terms, the difference is enough to maneuver NCC1701 in it
Allan, do you sometimes think of the Vulcan nerve pinch when you press the register key? ![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif)
To my untrained ear, there seems to be a lot of hearsay and snake oil in all this barrel and oil business <carefully avoiding allusions to "tree hugging">. I read of tapers, reverse tapers, venturi tapers, tachyon tapers and whatnot, but I haven't seen a "layperson's chart" (aka the good old FFB - Feature Function Benefit list) of what exactly a barrel is supposed to be doing except from connecting the mouthpiece with the body.
What effect has a narrowing (wider at the mouthpiece end) taper? What a flaring one? Are rippled or threaded interiors the way to go? On the southern hemisphere too? Can it raise or lower the pitch? On selected notes only?
Any takers?
--
Ben
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2007-06-09 23:38
Indeed, we must all change the rotation of the internal rifling in the barrel when going across the equator.
The coriolus effect MUST be taken seriously. If not, you might as well blow through the bell.
Tux...I barely touch the register key...in fact, I just THINK about depressing it.
An upper end microphone preamp maker labelled their latest gizmo as model # NCC1701. I used it here, instead of "Mack Truck" to see if anyone took the bait.....and, Tux, you did not let me down.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-06-09 23:46
Allan,
<stern>
you're evading my questions.
</stern>
(Incidentally, I use "Klingon" as a generic name for all exotic equipment)
--
Ben
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2007-06-09 23:53
Tux, I will make you such a chart.
That way you will no longer need to circle Uranus looking for Klingons.
(there, I set you up for the inverse punchline).
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-06-10 00:01
> That way you will no longer need to circle Uranus looking for Klingons.
You're just trying to trick me into creating an adverb of that planet, Nossire!
Besides, I wasn't aware that they're loitering in this quadrant now. <adjusts deflector shields>
But a chart would be very welcome, especially when coming from an authority.
--
Ben
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2007-06-10 01:20
Your "chart is in the (e)mail"
Guard it with your life.
Destroy it if you see and MIB nearby.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: susieray
Date: 2007-06-10 04:22
My favorite on my R13 Bb is Fobes. Runner up......Peter Spriggs.
Post Edited (2007-06-10 04:23)
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2007-06-10 06:09
"anyone had any experience with an RC with a chadashbarrel??
i have that setup with a B40mpc and that works just superb for me! an allready excellent sound has gotten far better.
anything that works better with the RC?
/niclas Gustafsson, sweden
Buffet Crampon RC, Chadash, B40, BG tradition"
I currently play on an RC clarinet too! except what i've found better to improve the sound even more is to use a HILL mouthpiece, BG Super revelation ligature, and have yet to find a barrel. The hill mouthpiece literally makes the entire clarinet resonate/vibrate with sound. will see if i can try a chadash barrel some day.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2007-06-10 12:58
Disclaimer....I make and sell barrels.
What follows are generalities based on subjective findings.
For C2thew, the Hill mpc is a great piece, with a lot of ring to it. That is part three of the equation. Part one is YOU, part two is the reed....but you already knew that.
Barrel creation for the RC line is tricky.
It is nice to actually have the client present with their set of RCs.
For one such person , a Grenadilla, ringless, with a very modestly openned bore (Wider than R13) and modest taper, did very well...But Rosewood sounded stuffy whereas Bubinga did not. Go figure.
In these instances, it is best to either bring or send the instruments to the barrel maker.
The process takes hours...even after the initial turnings are made.
For Tosca models, the same applies...in fact, as the bores seek equilibrium, they may need further adjustment.
Softer woods such as Cocobolo can indeed reverberate well. but....over time they are subject to dimensional changes....fortunately this usually means that the inner bore narrows, and this can be reamed open.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: SavvyClarinet
Date: 2007-06-21 18:20
I just got a Muncy barrel, and I find that it works well with my R13. It focuses the sound, and it sounds dark with less resistance. I think it plays very clearly. I was lucky enough to meet Phillip Muncy when I was trying out the different barrels, and he did a splendid job designing a great barrel!
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-06-21 21:21
Guy Chadash says that the Moennig and Chadash barrels supplied by Buffet have a reverse taper, smaller at the bottom than the top. The tapered bore improves tuning and focuses the tone. They have the same diameter at the bottom, but the Moennig is larger at the top and thus has a more severe taper.
Guy said that Moennig himself used the greater taper but also made the barrel's top socket deeper, which increased the volume of the bore. Buffet's Moennig barrels have a standard socket, with no gap. Thus, they don't play like (and are inferior to) Moennig's own barrels. Chadash barrels have a standard socket and are designed to play best that way. According to Guy, his barrels play like original Moennig barrels.
The final reaming of a barrel is as much an art as a science. I play on barrels made by Kalmen Opperman, who finished them while I was at his shop. He made tiny changes with hand reamers to make each barrel play best on my clarinet and my mouthpiece, and the improvement was remarkable.
Alseg says above that he does this, and I'm sure that if you went to any maker's workshop you would get the same kind of final tweaks there.
The hand work is what makes the difference.
Probably almost all of the listed makers can supply excellent barrels, noticeably better than the factory barrels. I would advise against the adjustable ones, though, which, by their nature, have a bore that changes as you screw or slide them in and out. I've tried several Click barrels, and none of them played well.
Finally, there used to be a barrel with a square bore -- it was called Acoustech, or something similar. Physically there's no reason why it shouldn't work, but I've never met anyone who played on one of them.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2007-06-21 21:36
Ken Shaw said:
"Alseg {ie ME}says above that he does this, and I'm sure that if you went to any maker's workshop you would get the same kind of final tweaks there."
Right...NO GAP for the mouthpiece socket, or allow slight proudness rather than a gap.
YES the original Moennig was wider at top than the Buffet version.
Reason.....Many of the mouthpieces in vogue then had a different chamber.
Also, his set up included a 1mm truncation of the Bell joint and his barrel was 1mm longer than today's Buffet standard.
This is why custom makers ask the players so many darned questions!
Allan Segal
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2007-06-21 21:54
I would like some input from all the Chadash fans out there about the tunining of the throat notes, in particular, second line "A." This note was so horribly sharp on ALL the Chadash products I tried that it was the straw that pushed me into the Yamaha clarinets. I don't regret this for one moment, but wonder how others find the tuning so dramatically different than I.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: William
Date: 2007-06-22 14:25
For my R13s, I prefer the Springer 6-7-67 barrel over any of the Moennig or Chadash barrels I have tried. For my LeBlanc Concertos, my answer would be "none of the above" as I much prefer the factory issued barrel(s) which came with the instruments. And it should be noted that the Concerto/Opus models were designed (by Tom Ridenour) so that the same barrel can be used on both your A & Bb for ease in switching.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2007-06-23 22:13
A and Bb barrels are the same for the Yamaha CSGs as well. Tom doesn't have an exclusive on this idea.
..........Paul Aviles
Post Edited (2007-06-23 22:13)
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Author: Ed
Date: 2007-06-24 00:24
I have not experienced the tuning problems mentioned w/ Chadash products. Guy makes great products that tune VERY well. That is generally one of their strong points.
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