 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Dave Lee Ennis
Date: 2000-06-26 08:56
Hi, I'm back! It seems that my internet suicide has been averted, so here I am with another dumb question, even though my head is aching and I have a cold. On a recent post that I replied to (Can I trust [HELP]), I hit on the issue of Pitches of clarinets, NO NOT FOOTBALL PITCHES, but the tuning of the instruments (I think). Apparentely, it's different in America than to Europe, and since I'm from the U.K, this interests me. What I really want to know is - what is the difference exactly? It can't be almost a semitone - Can it?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dee
Date: 2000-06-26 10:11
In the US, A = 440 Hz while in Europe they seem to go for A=442 Hz. Using the US as a basis, Bb = 466 Hz. So the difference is 2 out 66 Hz. This is 1/33 or 3% of a semitone.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Eoin
Date: 2000-06-26 10:22
Sorry to disagree, Dee! The ear hears pitch on a logarithmic scale, so the difference between 442 Hz and 440 Hz should be estimated on this basis. 1200 x Log(442/440) / Log(2) give 7.85 cents. A semitone is 100 cents, so the difference in pitch is 8% of a semitone. This is small, but it is possible that you would be able to hear it.
I believe that 442 is not standard throughout Europe. Some German orchestras use a higher pitch. Also, orchestras specialising in Baroque, such as the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment, tune to a much lower pitch (432?).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dee
Date: 2000-06-26 13:28
Eoin,
Thanks. Didn't have time to work out the logs so early in the morning. Just wanted to show that it was nowhere close to being a semitone.
I don't think we should include groups that specialize in replicating historical conditions. They are specialty groups and thus do not represent the typical modern band or orchestra.
As far as modern bands and orchestras go, from what we hear in the US, the commonest choice in Europe is A=442. Now of course that doesn't mean everyone uses it just that it is common.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ray Swing
Date: 2000-06-26 17:38
You learn something new every now and again on this BB. I certainly never even imagined my ear hears pitch on a logorithmetic scale I understand the math, but not where the constant 1200 comes from . Also, is this Log base 10 or e? Would you please enlighten me?
Thanks
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Eoin McAuley
Date: 2000-06-26 23:03
Think about the note A in four different octaves. The frequencies are 110, 220, 440, 880. Each one is twice the previous one. And yet to you, they sound like they are evenly spaced. This is why we have to use frequency ratios rather than frequency differences when talking about pitch. This is the same as taking the logarithm of the whole lot and then talking about differences.
To work out the pitch difference between two notes, divide one by the other, then take the log to the base 2:
log 2 (f2/f1)
But my calculator doesn't have a log to base 2 button, so I use log to base something (f2/f1) / log to base something of 2. It doesn't matter what something you use, as long as you use the same something in both logs. So 10 will do nicely:
log (f2/f1) / log 2)
where both logs are to base 10.
Finally, using this measure, an octave will work out as a pitch difference of 1. To make this more workable, let there be 12 semitones in an octave and 100 cents in a semitone, so multiply the whole thing by 1200 to get the frequency difference expressed in cents.
Hope that makes sense.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Alphie
Date: 2000-06-27 00:22
For Early Music groups, the standard pitch for Baroque music is A=415. For Classical music it's A=430. You have several Early Music groups in the US too. "Philharmonia" in San Francisco, "Amadeus Winds" in Boston and "The New World Basset Horn Trio", to name a few.
Alphie
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ray Swing
Date: 2000-06-27 00:38
Thanks for the tutorial.
I'm Thinking about your analysis.
Ray
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2000-06-27 07:34
Generally in Engineering field, such a description as 90dB '(A)' is corrected figure.
It will be totally different matters how 440Hz-piano tuned people feel to 442 Hz system.
This URL has a vast range of articles on music cognition.
http://www.music-cog.ohio-state.edu/Resources/information.html#Articles
I thought so-called 'a perfect pitch' is anything but perfect, merely relativistic, and found many academic people experimented this phenomena. What do they say?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chloe
Date: 2000-07-02 20:27
My orchestra (and electronic tuner) always tune to A=440 in the Uk. But we could be weird!!!
Chloe
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
