 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-03-21 18:16
Hello
Not exactly clarinet related, so I hope it is ok.
Does anyone here (Australian?) also play didgeridoo? A didgeridoo player played with us today as a guest and I tried his didg, and couldn't really get a sound. Suddnely out of nowhere he brought me one for free. So I practiced a little and I can get the sound ok now.
The main problem is I can't do the circular breathing. What happens when I try it is my lips get too tied when I puff the air out of my cheeks. Any advice?
Thanks & best wishes!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-21 18:23
Have you ever played your bass clarinet like a didgeridoo before (ie. without the mouthpiece)?
I can do circular breathing on oboe and cor, the trickiest bit is reinstating normal breathing smoothly after you've taken in a new breath. You have to practice it with the correct breath resistance (mouthpiece or reed) as it's the resistance that's the key.
I can demonstrate it easily enough, though I can't describe it all that well in words.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Mags1957
Date: 2007-03-21 18:36
I actually make didgeridoos and teach my students how to play them. We have a world music ensemble at our school, and all the students make their own didgeridoos for the group. I have sold over 100 didges ob the internet - I used to have a website, but I'm semi-retired now 
It's hard to teach with just explanation and without seeing you, BUT, for circular breathing, try it with water first. Go to your sink, take a mouthful of water, and while you slowly push the water out, breathe in and out through your nose - you will be able to do it easily. Now just think about doing the same thing with air. Take a nice big breath and let your cheeks puff out. While you squeeze the air out of your cheeks, breathe in through your nose - usually doing it very rhythmically helps. There are many sites on the web that explain it in greater detail - try a Google search. Good Luck.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2007-03-21 22:20
Clarnibass, it seems you understand and can basically do the technique.
I find the large diameter of the typical didge is more demanding on the lips, particularly if you have smallish lips. Try doing it for a start on a smaller diameter first, say the rigid tube section from a vacuum cleaner, or any other tube around 25 mm diameter.
Chris wrote "...the trickiest bit is reinstating normal breathing smoothly after you've taken in a new breath..."
That really doesn't matter on a didgeridoo, because a air pressure pulse (hence pulse in sound) is incorporated into the musical style of the instrument.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2007-03-21 22:26
It seems that Clarnibass has the technique, but for anybody else interested, I once wrote this for another forum.
Circular breathing can be difficult to learn because there are several important skills that all have to be timed exactly right, going from one to the other in a cyclic fashion, under control, without panicking. It is actually a much more complicated process than many players are aware of. It is far easier to practise this first on something resembling a diggeridoo, such as the long metal tube of a vacuum cleaner.
1. Think about sucking up juice through a thin straw (or better still, do it! I THINK that what everybody does is to fill the front and back of the mouth with the tongue, then pull the tongue back from the front, while it is still blocking the back of the mouth. THEN, now that there is a mouthful of juice, we open the BACK of the mouth (i.e. throat) and swallow it.
2. OK. Now do the opposite. First fill your mouth very full of water either using a straw, or drinking from a glass. Now SQUIRT that slowly out through a small gap between your lips. Think about what you are doing while you do it. You have your tongue blocking the BACK of your mouth, and gradually pushing forward, pushing the water forwards with it, and out between your lips.
That is exactly how you squirt the AIR out, FROM YOUR MOUTH ONLY, while you take a breath during circular breathing. The same as with the water, but using a mouthful of air instead. Let`s call that Skill A... squirting a mouthful of air out of the mouth by using the tongue. Practise it.
3. Take another large mouthful of water. While holding that water in your mouth, breathe in and out through your nose. Get used to it. Lets call it Skill B... breathing in through your nose while your tongue is blocking the back of your mouth.
4. Get your mouth full of water again, lips closed. While the water is still trapped there, breathe out all your air through your nose. Now, the important bit.... Squirt out the mouthful of water (As in "2"), WHILE you are breathing in, as in in "3". That is Skill A & B combined. Multi-tasking!
5. Now do exactly the same as in 4, but using a mouthful of air instead of water. You will need to practise doing this with a very large mouthful of air.
6. Skill C is actually playing the flute with good control, while using ONLY air being pushed out from the mouth. So practise Skill A while playing a note on the flute. This is particularly difficult on flute compared with diggeridoo, oboe, or clarinet, which use less air, and do not have such a delicate embouchure to be messed up, and do not require such good control of the evenness of air pressure.
Doing it - The Beginning.
Just play a single long note. Anything else will detract too much from your concentration at this stage.
For circular breathing you start off playing normally, blowing out air from your lungs. Your throat is open, to let the air pass from your lungs to your mouth and on to the flute. Skill D is that WHILE you are doing this, you gradually fill your mouth with a lot of air.
You may need to consciously make plenty space for this air, either in your cheeks (which looks pretty odd) &/or in the very back of your mouth almost to your throat. This means you need to lie your tongue flat in your mouth, well out of that big air space. (Tonguing is difficult in this position! - yet another skill to work on later)
Next, when you lungs need to be filled, Skill E is needed. Skill E is changing smoothly (i.e. without affecting your note) to Skill A, blocking your throat and squirting air out by using your tongue.
Now, without wasting any time, as SOON as you have skill A started, you begin skill B, taking a big breath while doing Skill A, as in "4" above. You do not get much time to take this breath, because your mouth will very soon run out of air! (It is probably impossible to do any tonguing while squirting air out of your mouth.)
BEFORE your mouth runs out of air, you need Skill F, which is to very smoothly (i.e. without affecting your note) change to blowing out normally from your lungs. This means you need to quickly do all of the following: Stop breathing in, then block so air cannot come out your nose (as with normal flute playing) and lie your tongue down flat again so that it no longer is pushing air out, while at the same time, start blowing air out from your lungs again.
Then you start again at The Beginning.
The coordination needs a LOT of work, particularly on flute. It is possible to coordinate tonguing with the changes between lung blowing to mouth squirting, in order to disguise slight hiccups in the sound, but this is yet another difficult skill to master.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-03-22 06:47
Thanks everyone. I haven't read the replies yet, but I'll read them all in a few minutes. I just woke up, tried it again, and could do the circular breathing on the didgeridoo! I realized what my problem was and changed it.
Edit: OK I read the replies now.
Chris - Yes I've played the clarinet (and bass clarinet) without the mouthpiece and was able to circular breath like this. The didgeridoo was different somehow as my lips squeezed too hard on the didg which wasn't a problem on the clarinets.
Chris & Mags - Maybe I should have mentioned that I do circular breathing on clarinets (maybe even for most of the music I play). I just couldn't do it on didg. Maybe because it was the first day I ever played on it.
Mags - Can you tell me a little about digeridoos. Things like what makes one better than another. The one the didg player had definitely sounded much better than the one he gave me. His played a Db and mine plays a F. I'm interested to know what makes one sound good? Should it be exactly a cylinder? It's probably possible to get a certain pitch with different bore dimaeter / length relation. Does that make the sound better? Etc.
Gordon - Do Aborigins have big lips in general? I'd say mine are bigger than average for a European type white person. I don't remember the pro didg he had, but the one I got is just a long plastic pipe and the bore is about 3cm (or just slightly over).
I also hope someone will benefit from your explanation on circular breathing. Though I can say that when I just started trying it, I couldn't get it on clarinet for weeks (though I could get the straw & water fine). The day I suddenly was able to do it is when I actually for the first time saw someone do it right in front of me.
By the way Gordon, can you circular breath on flute?
Thanks again everyone.
Post Edited (2007-03-22 09:02)
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2007-03-22 12:09
"Gordon - Do Aborigines have big lips in general? "
In general, I think so.
""...I'm interested to know what makes one sound good? ..."
I think it would have a lot to do with the length to bore ratio, as with all wind instruments. Also, the natural frequency of the air column determines the frequency that the lips have to vibrate (as for reed on clarinet), so the player must use his lips in such a way as to not fight that, yet still provide the energy to generate the sound. When it is right, a lot less air is used, because the system is efficient.
"..By the way Gordon, can you circular breath on flute?..."
Yes, but not to any useful degree. My changeovers are just too rough and I have not put in the practice to smooth them. Flute uses quite a lot of air most of the time - more than a didgeridoo - so the squirting from the mouth phase has to be done rather quickly. And typical flute music demands very smooth changeovers, unlike didgeridoo playing.
(I once went to a class by a master flute guru from overseas. He demonstrated circular breathing thus: He played as tune for about 40 seconds, but I noticed that there was movement at all in his cheeks, nor any movement in his neck area. And no sign of chest or abdomen movement associated with inhaling. He then declared that he had taken 10 breaths in that time. I didn't believe a word of it!)
Some sites you may find useful or interesting:
http://aboriginalart.com.au/didgeridoo/dig_background.html
http://www.didjshop.com/physicsDidj03.html
http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/didjeridu.html
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-22 13:28
During the '90s the didgeridoo gained notoriety with the 'New-Age' crusty types who mixed certain aspects of Aboriginal culture with Afro-Carribean, Native American, Aztec, Inca, Polonesian, Buddhism, Hinduism, Romany, Pagan and a sprinkling of any other culture they could throw in for good measure, topped off with a good dose of illegal substances, dogs on strings and a knackered old bus they drove to illegal campsites with all their kids, music festivals and road protests in.
If they were as environmentally respectful as they made out to be, then they really shouldn't drive old diesel busses that belched out black smoke on the very roads they use when they went around chaining themselves to trees as a protest of man's destruction of the planet, not to mention the mess they leave behind at the fields they churned up while camping there.
Even with so-called anarchy there are still rules.
In the UK the didgeridoo was made famous by Rolf Harris, who also brought the wobble-board to the masses and was also the face of the Stylophone.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-03-22 21:21
OK after some more practice I decided I want to get a good one. I'll look locally but I doubt I'll find anything. If I knew what are good bore diameter and length I can try to find a pipe in the correct size, but that's only if a cylinder is ok. Maybe a bell end is better?
A friend is actually in Australia right now and will visit soon. Is there a chance to find better ones there, or is it too global today to matter at all? I also don't want to spend a lot and then be disapointed.... Is there a price that something like this usually cost?
I now also saw that the wax on the mouthpiece (i.e. the edge) is to make the hole smaller for the lips? I thought it was just to help seal.
Any help will be appreciated!
Nitai
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2007-03-22 22:23
In a local market recently, I compared cylindrical ones form Australia, and conical ones from some other country. I found the cylindrical ones a lot more responsive. (This was only a short, very superficial test by a VERY amateur player)
Bells. As far as I know the bell on a clarinet is not for tone reasons, but rather to correct the tuning of certain 12ths. It is for even greater tuning corrections on trumpet, etc (helps to convert an odd-only harmonic series to odd + even... amazing distortions!) Flute and recorder have none. And that for a sax is negligible - probably mainly for appearance.
There is possibly a more easily transported length-to-weight ratio for the tourist trade. To get a decent one you may have to get past that to the real thing. If they are still relying on termites to bore out the cylinder, then short ones would be a lot quicker to produce :-)
I don't know more than that. I don't often see them in NZ. They are not part of NZ culture.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-03-23 06:31
OK Thanks Gordon.
I actually found an Israeli Didgeridoo maker. He has so many different ones. Cheapest start from $50-$70 made of bambuk or some Indonesian trees. Then there are Agave tree for around $150-$250. Imported from Australia are more expensive $300-$450. Most expensive are his own hard-wood ones which are even up to $600.
He also has some stuff he made called DidgBox. It's like a didg folded twice so it's much shorter (but wider), and he got a DidgBoxSilde which you can change from four notes of the DidgBox.
He also has some unique ones (some not for sale). For example one shaped like a saxophone.
Anyway I'll just try to see if I can go to him and try them or listen to see which one I like. Maybe I can get one that isn't painted for less.
Thanks again.
Nitai
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-23 13:44
Or just the body joints of your Buffet Prestige bass with all the keys closed!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2007-03-23 18:47
Chris P wrote:
>Have you ever played your bass clarinet like a didgeridoo before (ie. without the mouthpiece)?
I can make mine sound like one WITH the mouthpiece...
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-03-24 05:12
Gordon, the one I have now is plastic pipe. The problem with this is I have to start experimenting to find a good bore/length relation to get a note/sound I like. If I go to the maker I can just try a lot of them and if I find one I like it's easier (the wood ones also have a more comfortable mouthpiece). By the way I checked and actually the bore of the one I have now is 3.5cm-4cm (it is eliptical in some places probably from being squashed) since I accidently measured with the wax. Its sound is too bassy though IMO.
Alex, yes that's possible too Just this week I played a duo with one (bass clarinet & didgeridoo) which was mostly holding low Db for about 10 minutes (and make changes with overtones), which made both instruments sound a lot like didg.
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