 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: tedm
Date: 2006-10-23 02:31
As a guitarist in the US, we've had imports for better or worse for a couple of decades. Many people like Japanese made guitars, though in general the US made ones by the big companies like Fender, Martin, Gibson are considered great ones.
Anyways, in the past decade, more and more guitars have been coming from Korea and the far east, and Mexico, sometimes, but not always of lesser quality or Quality Assurance than the US counterparts.
With guitars, electric, or acoustic, you can get a decent beginner guitar to learn on, that stays in tune for $100 - $200 new.
With beginning Eb student clarinets, it seems like you still need to pay either new $400+ for a new leblanc, selmer, yamaha, artley etc., or go used and have it checked out and all, and that's still ~ $200 or more.
There seem to be low end clarinets out there at Costco, even some brand name ones, and Musicians Friend, on Amazon, but they are no name, and I would expect not the quality of the tried and true ones mentioned above.
But surely there must be one or two "budget" ones that can certainly allow one to learn, even if not sounding good, or having the craftsmanship of a better one?
As a parent, the other thing that chaps my hide is the rental system in place in most stores, you can pay $25/mo. to rent, but when you apply that to buy, it's a low end offshore made one, not a quality beginning student instrument (at least at the stores we've rented from and tried). The above models, some of which the dealers carried said were "high-end" beginning student models) and were not applicable for the rent to own.
So whoever, wherever makes a $300 new beginning clarinet that can last a couple of years, stay fairly in tune (many say the Suzuki's don't stay in tune), and just allow one to learn, is going to have a winner. We were fortunate to find a gently used Artley 17S for $150 used, and have checked by an expert, and just buy a new mouthpiece, but our family could use a couple of more clarinets, and if we can buy a guitar, at $50 from Musicians Friend, that for learning, staying in tune, playability (action), and playing around the house equals my 20x costing Martin guitar, that is what we want. For us beginning on the clarinet, we don't need the equivalent of a Martin guitar, we need some basic utility instrument that stays in tune and lets us learn.
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Author: Kchui999
Date: 2006-10-23 02:58
My first clarinet was an old Bundy plastic horn dating back to the late 70's (?) that my parents bought on eBay for about $50. It needed a $150 repad, but it's a quality brand-name clarinet that lasted a good 4 years before i upgraded to a wood horn in middle school.
Last summer I bought an Armstrong 103 flute off eBay as well for $80. again, a $200 repad/repair, but also a quality instrument that I'm making a lot of progress on.
Point is, if you're willing to put some money into it, there's absolutely nothing wrong with buying used instruments. I know there are quite a few out on the auction sites that are damaged beyond repair, but I've had good luck so far.
Chui
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-10-23 10:54
I've bought several old Bundy/Vito clarinets off That Auction Site, none of which required more than new pads and corks (which I'm doing myself). They're all good, sturdy student instruments with "good enough" intonation and sound. For none (except a brand new Bundy) I paid more than 20$ plus S&H.
--
Ben
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-10-23 11:09
The first clarinet I taught myself how to repair with was a plastic Bundy that cost me $50 on eBay (including shipping). I imagine a professional repairer would not charge that much to repair it (repad/recork plus some other extra repairs). When I finished with it I am willing to bet, if played by a pro, no one would know it wasn't a pro quality instrument. I couldn't believe how good an instrument it was!
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Author: buedsma
Date: 2006-10-23 11:57
type "clarinet noblet" on the auction site and you'll find playable instruments for less then 100 dollar
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Author: Tony Beck
Date: 2006-10-23 12:22
I think you are bumping into a supply and demand problem. There are scads of aspiring guitar players out there, and many, many companies are making student guitars to fill that market. There are a lot fewer clarinet players, so the market is much smaller, production is lower and prices are higher. It’s simple economics. If you think clarinets are bad, look into oboes, where the market is even smaller.
You also put yourself behind the 8 ball by selecting an Eb instrument. These are specialty clarinets. Student Bbs outnumber Ebs probably 1000 to 1. You’ve done to equivalent of moving out of the guitar market and into the lute market.
As others have suggested, the way to go is with a used student Bb instrument. Look at the archives here for suggestions on good ones. Plastic is the way to go with students starting in school band. These instruments don’t crack and they put up with the unintended abuse kids throw at them (like not swabing after class, leaving the reeds in the mouthpiece and so on). Expect to pay ~$200 for a rebuild. Once put in playing condition, a clarinet will stay that way for years. There are no strings to buy and install, no warps and generally less chance for problems than with guitars. They are also a lot easier to lug around!
Good luck with clarineting, and let us know once in a while how you are doing.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-10-23 12:49
There are so-far-seemingly-quite-respectable Chinese-made clarinets selling here in NZ for NZ$165. That's around US$110. After inital adjustment, I expect few if any problems for a few years.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-10-23 12:54
Gordon (NZ) wrote:
> There are so-far-seemingly-quite-respectable Chinese-made
> clarinets selling here in NZ for NZ$165. That's around US$110.
> After inital adjustment, I expect few if any problems for a
> few years.
Gordon -
Although some may not be available in the USA, it would be helpful if you listed some of the brands which you have found to be of better quality...GBK
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Author: EuGeneSee
Date: 2006-10-23 13:06
. . . not only a good point to know some reputable lower cost student brands, but you might also look at the other side of the coin - the "dogs" to avoid. See GBK's "Clarinets of questionable quality" thread on the KEEPERS section of this BB. Eu
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-10-23 13:16
EuGeneSee wrote:
> . . . not only a good point to know some reputable lower cost
> student brands, but you might also look at the other side of
> the coin - the "dogs" to avoid. See GBK's "Clarinets of
> questionable quality" thread on the KEEPERS section of this BB.
<looks at freshly acquired and '2007 educator approved' "Klingon" clarinet>
Duh. Now you tell me! ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
--
Ben
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Author: tedm
Date: 2006-10-23 15:29
Thanks, I will read the keepers section referenced here, and I did mean Bb, not Eb, sorry about that.
I have found another Artley 17S on one of this site's sponsors so I agree used is a viable method, although I'm not a DIY re-padder so I don't know what repair costs are and prefer to just get one in good working shape from the get go.
About brands, I would suspect, that you can't just pick a brand as good or bad, for example the guitars I was referencing are under a house name of a big retailer, and their low end < $100 guitars are amazing, maybe 95/100 just come setup and playable and stay in tune, but when you go higher in that house brand line, they're a little sketchier for the quality, so brands and models are important I think, unless a mfg. has only one model clarinet.
I agree about the economics thing *except* that there is apparently enough demand that these far east units *are* showing up, as mentioned in above posts, but so far just aren't getting reviewed.
I might go out on a limb and get a Suzuki "Masterclass" at Costco for < $200. Two experts have told me to stay away from Suzuki, and I'm not a glutton for punishment, but these experts have only experience from older Suzuki beginner units, and it's very possible the ones now are rebranded, or made at another factory with different specs, etc., so unless someone told me the Suzuki Masterclass or brand xyz / model abc wasn't good, I am inclined to wonder about it as being feasable.
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Author: tedm
Date: 2006-10-23 15:51
GBK,
I agree, names really help parents, I read your list on the keepers section, and it rules out a few no names I've had my eye on at Amazon, and interestingly your tech hasn't named Suzuki, but yet I know of 2 experts/teachers who've had bad luck with them (at least older ones).
Also, when mentioning good plastic beginner ones, Artley is rarely mentioned, but Vito, Buffet are. Are they a notch above the Artley 17S?
I'm wondering if anyone knows the difference between the Suzuki CL-SC for $229 at Amazon, vs the $199 one at Costco?? Both have "Fabricated Nickel Silver Plated Keys for Strength" and "Deluxe, Lightweight Aluminum "ROADIE" Style Case With Foam Fittings" ???
I'm tempted to just get another used Artley, but my curiousity about these Suzukis and wondering whether a Vito or Buffet plastic has a better tone is gnawing at me.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2006-10-23 16:09
The guitar industry has a bigger hook....Once you start with electric guitars, there is always another amp, processor, effects device, pickup, wah-wah peddle, etc to add.
While we all love our new ligatures, barrels, bells, etc, these are nothing in comparison to cost ofthe warp-drive technology that the average garage band bassist, lead guitarist et al get into.
Fine firewire preamps, midi circuits and the like are now produced in China (Presonus firepod comes to mind), so it is little wonder that they can market a usable starter guitar for cheap, setting the bait on the hook for major purchases in short order.
Tux....Does the Klingon clarinet have a cloaking device? And BTW Romulans have a new model coming out with DiLithium Plating.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2006-10-23 16:12)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-10-23 16:31
Allan,
no, the only extra the Klingon has is a gnarly ridge on barrel and bell. Must be a tone enhancer feature. ![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif)
--
Ben
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Author: tedm
Date: 2006-10-23 17:00
Ben,
I'm not sure what you're saying about the Klingon, is it OK or bad?? Where are they sold? Thanks!
tictactux wrote:
> Allan,
>
> no, the only extra the Klingon has is a gnarly ridge on barrel
> and bell. Must be a tone enhancer feature.
>
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Author: tedm
Date: 2006-10-23 17:08
This is my point, why do clarinetists think they are stuck in the baroque ages when guitarists and anyone who records has moved forward with products, pricing and marketing.
Am I going to be the first one to put out a clarinet recording on DVD-Audio at 24-bits/192khz going through a boutique amplifier with Fulltone OCD pedal, Lovepedal Magneto, and a tape Echoplex, with wah wah??!!
Come on Clarinet players, get with the program, support your instrument, record yourself, play through stomp boxes, and turn that basement into a home recording studio, support the economy!!
Author: Alseg (---.hvhs.org - ISP in Pittsburgh, PA United States)
Date: 2006-10-23 16:09
The guitar industry has a bigger hook....Once you start with electric guitars, there is always another amp, processor, effects device, pickup, wah-wah peddle, etc to add.
While we all love our new ligatures, barrels, bells, etc, these are nothing in comparison to cost ofthe warp-drive technology that the average garage band bassist, lead guitarist et al get into.
Fine firewire preamps, midi circuits and the like are now produced in China (Presonus firepod comes to mind), so it is little wonder that they can market a usable starter guitar for cheap, setting the bait on the hook for major purchases in short order.
Tux....Does the Klingon clarinet have a cloaking device? And BTW Romulans have a new model coming out with DiLithium Plating.
Surgeon-Musician-Woodworker
Handcrafted Clarinet Barrels
http://www.clarinetconcepts.com
412 889 8202
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2006-10-23 17:31
Tedm,
I'm not sure that saying "why do clarinetists think they are stuck in the baroque ages" and "Come on Clarinet players, get with the program" will endear you to many on this BB. Are you a clarinet player? If so, what's your experience level and basis for saying those things?
IMHO, you may have taken some liberties in an area that you know nothing about. I'd caution you to be a tad more diplomatic.
HRL
PS That's as much as I'll rant.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-10-23 18:24
tedm wrote:
> Am I going to be the first one to put out a clarinet recording
> on DVD-Audio at 24-bits/192khz going through a boutique
> amplifier with Fulltone OCD pedal, Lovepedal Magneto, and a
> tape Echoplex, with wah wah??!!
Nope. Been done for years now. Check out stuff by Gerry Errante, who works wonders with syncronized multimedia, sound effects, and other such stuff - and makes MUSIC with the whole shebang. I'm sure there are others doing the same thing, but Gerry is the person I know doing it.
Gerry's no spring chicken - he just sounds like one
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Author: tedm
Date: 2006-10-23 18:27
Hi Hank,
Thank you for your comments. I am not yet a clarinet player, but I would like to become one. My daughter is beginning, and my son also wants to learn.
I am not sure if you've read all the messages in this thread, but I have a lot of questions and have read and talked to a lot of folks about clarinets. I have a lot to learn.
I want to know if there are any new usable clarinets available in the ~$200 range. I do know that big companies have unfairly tried to keep lower priced companies from entering the market, and I also know they've been unsuccessful to a point.
I want to know if Suzuki Clarinets work, and would be an OK starting instrument for a year or two.
I want to know if there are better beginning instruments than the Artley 17S which can be found used and in good working order in the $100-$150 range. For example, is a Buffet or Vito better sounding or better made?
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-10-23 18:41
Tedm,
the "Klingon" thing was an allusion to another thread ("you've played too much...."). It is a purely fictional brand, as far as I know.
--
Ben
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Author: bufclar
Date: 2006-10-23 18:47
Tedm,
I think any clarinet you find in the price range you describe will have good and bad things about them. Overall they will be fairly poor instruments so I doubt you will find something fabulous. Clarinets are much more complicated to make than a guitar and guitars have been around 100's of years longer than a clarinet so keep that in mind. There is not a market for clarinets like there is for guitars, period. Sure a pro can make a cheap instrument soud pretty good but a beginner will sound like a novice on what ever they play weather it be a Leblac Backun or Buffet Tosca etc. You should find a clarinet that is durable and will work well enough to not hinder a beginners growth. GBK's list in the keepers section is a good thing to follow. Learning how to form an embouchure, read music, hold the clarinet correctly, proper hand position, putting the instrument together correctly, air support etc are all things that can be learned on just about any instrument. Buy what you can afford and go from there.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-10-23 18:54
Tedm,
> I want to know if there are better beginning instruments than the
> Artley 17S which can be found used and in good working order in the
> $100-$150 range. For example, is a Buffet or Vito better sounding or
> better made?
I can't tell you whether a Buffet or a Vito are per se better sounding or better made. But for a reason these two brands exist for a long time, and the market force usually sweeps junk brands away quite quickly. If the brand exists for over eg five years, chances are they're doing their job at least right.
Check out www.clarinuts.com - they have refurbished second hand clarinets of good brands for very reasonable prices. (I have no affiliation with them, just happened to find them via this bboard).
--
Ben
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Author: tedm
Date: 2006-10-23 19:24
Thanks again all. I feel like I owe this board something, like trying out a new low cost unit that isn't on the bad list and then letting folks know if it is good or bad (basically, works or doesn't work).
Another question I have is this: does it make sense to get 2 or 3 Artley 17s units, so if a part breaks, we can scavenge from the 3rd to sort of keep 2 running? Or is there a benefit with 2 or 3 clarinet players in the house to have different brands for different tones??
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-10-24 01:25
".....Although some may not be available in the USA, it would be helpful if you listed some of the brands which you have found to be of better quality...GBK"
The local brands are pretty meaningless, because as in USA, the local brands are just names that an importer has arranged to have put on the instrument.
I stress that inconsistency regarding Chinese-origin instruments is quite the norm, especially when an importer may be buying from an exporter who is sourcing from a variety of factories, and not even knowing that.
I may see a respectable cheap clarinet, only to find that the same brand name alto sax has atrocious pivot rods, yet the tenor sax is fine. The next shipment may be the reverse...... So beware about attaching any recommendation to a particular brand name. Brand names are now almost meaningless in the world of cheap instruments, even well-known brand names.
I therefore am reluctant to publicly attach any sort of endorsement to any particular brand name at this stage. Perhaps after I have seen enough specimens over several years, but not at this early stage. For me, Yamaha had to go through the same hoops before I would recommend their student clarinet.
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Author: bawa
Date: 2006-10-24 10:16
tedm,
I think it is a lot cheaper to manufacture a guitar, especially electric compared to a clarinet. Full stop.
I think Artleys have been around a lot longer than all these cheap new brands, so they should be sounder. There is also the Forte clarinet, whose price (new) is much nearer your budget. At least it will give you a "proper" clarinet that will last and play well rather than all the Costco stuff, on which you will probably end up spending a lot more to bring it up to playability.
This has been my experience with another area where there have been a lot of cheap imports, i.e. violins. You can get one here for 100 euros the entire kit, and the first thing you do is throw out the strings (replaced by proper ones costing 40 euros), the bridge (3 euros plus work to fit it), the rosin (about 7 euros), and probably the bow (about 150-200 min for a proper one). Then in a year you realise the violin is actually hampering progress, and resale value is nil. Then you go and out and get at least a minimum standard like a Yamaha student violin.
As for Suzuki, I have never seen any instruments by them, not even violins, so i would definitely be very suspicious, especially at the price.
Many smaller children start off here with an Eb Leblanc noblet (wood); and although it is pricier, it is an excellent instrument which will not hamper learning and then it has a good resale value.
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Author: tedm
Date: 2006-10-24 14:48
Thanks Bawa, good to know the Forte is there brand new at a tad over $400.
I bought a 2nd Artley 17S on the auction place, and am hoping it is in good shape.
There is not much love for Artley's here. When I bought our first a couple of months ago, the only reply I recall was to make sure it didn't have "pot metal" keys. So that was the first thing I asked the horn shop, and he laughed and said that Artley's, in his opinion were in the same league as Buffets, Vitos, etc.
One thing the shop missed during its inspection (or broke during my daughters first month of using) is the octave pad actuated by the lever in front of the left thumb (sorry I don't know the proper term here). Her instructor yesterday noted it, and adjusted it to work temporarily, but mentioning that it would probably need a new pad as she started to use that lever a little later but it was sealing/working for the short time.
So I wonder if there are different tones from vitos, buffets, etc., but these Artley's just keep becoming available to our budget for beginning Bb clarinets. We'll see.
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Author: tedm
Date: 2006-10-24 16:07
This $180 new model has not yet made it to Glenn's list:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Kohlert-430E-Clarinet-?sku=463132
it has power-forged nickel keys.
Also, surprised no one has a yeah or neah on the Suzuki beginner models.
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Author: ChrisArcand
Date: 2006-10-24 23:47
Long thread to read.
I feel obligated to respond because I am both a clarinetist and a guitarist.
Many points have been made in this thread which are completely correct. The market for guitars IS much, much larger than clarinets and thus prices are dropped with large demand. Guitars are much more a part of today's pop culture and thus even the most non-musical, no talent persons of today buy into such things. Translation: People who don't really care about music are much more likely to try and look cool owning a guitar than a clarinet. Sad, yes, but true.
Also, clarinets are much, much more complicated to produce, in my own opinion. I've furnished my own guitar, but I don't even know where I'd start to make my own clarinet. The fact that ours is a wind instrument with so many acoustical complications as compared to those of a guitar is obvious. (And no, I am not saying that guitars are EASY to make, though I would say EASIER)
As for my own two cents at the topic at hand, I would simply state that it is the musician, and not the instrument, which determines the quality of sound and music created. Learn about the equipment and what to buy, of course, but keep in mind that it is the player which is the most important. Starting off, it doesn't really matter as much about the equiment. A starting player with an R-13 isn't going to sound better than one with a Klingon :-D
Chris Arcand
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Author: marshall
Date: 2006-10-25 03:17
Being a guitarist I know the whole import v. domestic issue well. As you said, with a lot of companies there is almost no difference between imported guitars and domestic guitars. Take Fender for example. Go to your local music store and plug in a standard Fender Strat. Now take a Squier Strat out of the beginners package and it will sound essentially the same (when played through the same amp with the same tone settings and such). Same goes for companies like Ibanez, Jackson, even Martin has an Asian counterpart (Sigma...I have my trusty D-28 copy sitting next to me).
Its not as simple with clarinets though. With guitars, the main thing that seperates the cheap guitars from the expensive guitars is where it was made, and the according labor wages. As stated before, a guitar is a lot easier to make than a clarinet and you can train basically anybody how to make one in a few weeks. The only thing that may vary from guitar to guitar is a slight body shape, and that rarely affects tone or tuning. That means its easier to teach un-educated Asians/Mexicans/whatever how to do it, and easier to charge near-slave wages, thusly lowering the price. The clarinet is a much more precision instrument. You dont have electronics to keep the same, you dont have the simplicity of putting a design in a computer and having it run a machine to cut out the exact same thing right every time. The woods guitars are made out of are generally much easier to work with than Grenadilla wood, and Grenadilla wood is just so much more expensive (it takes about 100 years to grow a stalk big enough to make a standard Bb clarinet). Maple and Alder, Mahogony, whatever...are also a lot easier to work with than plastic, or a mix of Grenadilla powder and ABS resin (composite instruments). Each instrument has to be individually crafted and worked, and its a much more precision process than pressing a few buttons on a touch-screen computer.
The key system is also much more complicated on a clarinet than the fretboard on a guitar. I just got done taking apart, cleaning, and re-assembling a collegue's clarinet, and it took me a good hour and a half to two hours...thats without padding, corking, oiling, or anything else that goes into actually putting together the clarinet after machining. To take apart a guitar, fully clean it, re-assemble it, and re-string it will take me about half an hour (thats even with a floyd rose tremolo). The screws on a clarinet are smaller and there are more parts. Its just more complicated.
Also as mentioned before, guitar is just part of the pop-culture nowadays. 3/4 of the kids i know who play guitar dont know anything about music and just do it to look cool. Because of this...guitar sales are significantly higher than clarinet sales, and therefore prices are lower.
There are probably a billion other reasons that guitars are cheaper...im just blanking right now.
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Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2006-10-25 14:54
I hope you soon find the instrument you like.
I personally prefer to spent a few euros more to have a 'good' one - also for my kids - but for me it's my main hobby and I see it as an investment, meant to give me years of fun.
But apart from that "...clarinetists think they are stuck in the baroque ages .. " is quite a funny remark, because during those days, cost of clarinets was no real issue... and if you need your instrument to play clarinet music from that period ... don't spent to much money :-)
Post Edited (2006-10-25 14:59)
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Author: SVClarinet09
Date: 2006-10-25 21:59
Marshall, your statement on kids who buy guitars just to play it is absolutely right. I know kids who walk around my school with guitars. I ask them to play me something and they sound decent; enough to get them in a cruddy garage band. Then I ask to see their guitar and they're playing a 3/4 Ibanez or a Squier Bullet their parents bought them. Then I play on their guitar and they ask how I got so "good" and talented. I explain to them playing guitar isnt just about reading tabs. You have to know chord progressions, scales, intervals, chords in general. You have to know what you're doing.
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Author: Cuisleannach
Date: 2006-10-26 04:15
tedm
<<Am I going to be the first one to put out a clarinet recording on DVD-Audio at 24-bits/192khz going through a boutique amplifier with Fulltone OCD pedal, Lovepedal Magneto, and a tape Echoplex, with wah wah??!!>>
I must say that the wind instrument field did dabble to some degree in electronica. when I was in college a MIDI interface was developed to emulate the woodwinds, called a wind controller. You blew in it and it had keys, and looked like a tenor recorder from the movie "Tron" (boy does that date me!).
Some people did mess around with it, but I can certainly swing a fairly large stick and not worry about hitting a wind controller. The stick factor is much smaller with clarinets and almost infinitely smaller with guitars. I dabbled with it in college (because it was available) but liked my clarinet much better.
-Randy
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-10-27 03:28
Where I have seen the wind controllers used is in "praise band" settings, where the "base rock" folks making up these organizations want to add a new tone color. It's an easy route to obtain flute, clarinet, oboe, bassoon and saxophone sounds without much in the way of learning how to play the instruments.
Mind you, there are plenty of skills needed to play one and play it well, but not having to deal with the intricacies of embouchure knocks the overall skill levels way down.
The nice thing about them is that you can (literally) reprogram the key work to do what you want. Not into "certain fingerings"; want your clarinet to play straight up the holes like a sax (except for that pesky first/second finger thing at the top)? No problumo; reprogram the key work and away you go.
On the expensive ones, you can "bend" the pitch with the reed, much as you can with a real horn. You also have "pitch wheel" options on some, just like the wheel off to the side of a keyboard. Finally, with a good synthesizer, you have access to just about every instrumental sound from an orchestra hit (used a lot at sporting events) to six or seven different styles of piano. Not everyone's cup of tea, but a lot cheaper for a dinner theater to use than four or five of us to play our various instruments.
One neat thing is the "sharp" key option offered. With a straight set of sax fingerings and triple octave keys, the left hand little finger is free to operate this marvel. Placed like a C#/G# key, it's a simple matter to hit it whenever you want to "sharp" any note anywhere on the range of the (one hesitates to call it thus, but whatever) "instrument".
What they don't do well is travel. You have to have the controller, the cables, the power strip to supply the power to all of it, the amp (my friends all use piano amps), and the synth itself, which is more suited to mounting in a rack than to carry alone. You can run the stick off of batteries, but you then run the risk of having them swell up and get stuck in same (I've seen this happen twice). And, when the power goes out, you've got to set it all up again, as the settings and selected patch default to the norm.
While I've never owned a "professional" one of these (too much expense for too little gain, in my eyes), I have owned a couple of Casio DH-100s over the years. This was that "fat plastic saxophone" "toy" that they put out in the 1980's, and they were a lot of fun to play around with without all of the extra expense of the "pro" sticks. You had limited tonal colors available (and only two of them sounded worth a damn), but I always had a lot of fun improvising up high with the flute patch. The breath sensor was the same one used on the up end "instruments", and it allowed you the same tonguing facility as you would find on the flute. "Simplified fingering" (which seemed to me to be anything but) was offered for the rockers who couldn't master the 'duh' flutaphone normal system, and you were stuck with a nasty "auto-vibrato" for any note duration over a quarter. But, still a fun item, with the added advantage of being MIDI capable (so you could play a melody line into a notation program - a nice capability for piano challenged folks like moi).
We who have mastered (to one degree or another) the "real" wind instruments may look down at these electronic marvels, and without doubt some of the synth patches are "less than optimal" (to put it mildly). (The manufacturers insist otherwise, but I know that I can tell the difference, and I'm hard of hearing up high; I would imagine that those of you with "good hearing" can sense all the more defect with them.)
But to the great unwashed out there, what they do is every bit as good as what we do. Orchestra strikes and demonstrations on Broadway notwithstanding, they are the future - unless we are willing to go down on our prices. For us to ignore them is putting our heads in the sand.
At least they all play in tune...
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: bawa
Date: 2006-10-27 09:51
tedm,
The only Artley I know here is the backup one used by the Conservatory to lend to anyone who temporarily needs one. So it is old and has gone through many hands, but on the other hand it is well maintained. My daughter had it out for a few days when it had just come back from its annual servicing, while her Buffet RC was being serviced.
It definitely didn't sound as nice, and some keywork was more uncomfortable to use. Her band director also lent her his own back-up clarinet (another Buffet RC) and my daughter was just amazed by how good it was.
So when you are playing with the Artleys, just keep in mind that if you stick to the clarinet, you will eventually do well to move "up" to one of the big makes.
Yes, it is the player that counts, and my daughter makes this Artley sound better than lets say, the younger child who had been using it previously for a month, but she definitely sounds much much better (and says it is easier and more comfortable) on her professional clarinet.
Post Edited (2006-10-28 18:55)
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Author: tedm
Date: 2006-10-27 15:21
thanks Bawa,
so far we have one working artley 17s that my daughter practices on at least 30 min/day., now we have another artley 17s coming, and a buffet b12 crampon. so I guess I'll be able to hear differences if there are any major ones. Since the latter are from the auction site, they may need work, though they're reportedly in good shape.
If any of the above fail, or clarinet GAS induces, there is a wood noblet in the classifieds, I guess for home playing, I would expect that to have tonal differences, but better suited for home only playing. but we're all beginners, so maybe that wouldn't make much of a difference.
If I were doing this all over again, I would take one of those wholesalers up on their 5 packs of brand new artley's, and sell one or two off.
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The Clarinet Pages
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